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WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

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Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#341
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you say, I'm just nitpicking on differentiating redundancy from backups . Yes, a building with tapes can burn down. But whether it does so or not is not correlated with the state of the system that the original data lives on. Redundancy is a great step to prevent data loss. But redundancy won't do what a backup would: keep your data safe even if your system is fucked . Cloud sync is a double-edged s…

Agreed that RAID isn't backup, but other online systems, while not completely decoupled, are less-coupled, which serves as a convenient middle ground for some cases.

Of course. In like 99%+ of the cases probably.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#342

Read this, then checked my old My Book Live. Sure enough... everything's gone. I just used it for continuous laptop backups over my LAN, so unless one of them crashes tonight, I should be good. But, this will certainly give me pause when considering WD products, and this type of product in particular. This is very bad, WD! Are your other products also vulnerable in this way? Why should anyone ever again trust your co…

> Why should anyone ever again trust your company to keep their data safe? Because if you need a hard drive, your options are pretty much Western Digital, Seagate, and Toshiba, and they've all had their own problems.

The problem is the IoT not the drive

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would. But if there was a software vulnerability that would wipe out the hard drives of computers still realistically in use, much past that 3 year agreement expiry? i'd expect them to be on that.

Suppose there were a vulnerability in Mac OS X Tiger that wiped the hard drive of any G4 Powerbook connected to the internet. Would you expect Apple to be on that?

The company is among the most responsive to security issues because security is directly tied to their core value around data privacy.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#344

Read this, then checked my old My Book Live. Sure enough... everything's gone. I just used it for continuous laptop backups over my LAN, so unless one of them crashes tonight, I should be good. But, this will certainly give me pause when considering WD products, and this type of product in particular. This is very bad, WD! Are your other products also vulnerable in this way? Why should anyone ever again trust your co…

> Why should anyone ever again trust your company to keep their data safe? Because if you need a hard drive, your options are pretty much Western Digital, Seagate, and Toshiba, and they've all had their own problems.

> Because if you need a hard drive

This is the third such major scandal from WD in as many years. First, selling SMR drives as CMR. Second, selling 7200RPM drives as 5400RPM. Now this. They've lost a lot of credibility, and I don't see any of the other manufacturers having issues rivaling WD.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is "end of life" is defined way too soon for portable hard drives. The mechanical parts have a 4% annual failure rate, or a half-life of 12.5 years. The software should be supported for that long.

12 years? Typical business life of a computer is 5 years. Typical service/support agreement is 1-3 years. Try getting Apple to address a failed hard drive that's 12 years old. They'd laugh in your face.

My 15" 2013 MBP runs Big Sur just fine... Sure, not quite 12 years, but still

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. This is the ultimate IoT failure scenario, the product is in use but no longer supported and an exploit can hit it from the Internet. I suspect there will be litigation, but I am not a lawyer. I will be interested to see it though, what is the responsibility for using things post end-of-life? What we might see is a new “your on your own” mode built into this sort of appliance that once EOL hits it asks you to af…

I think the issue here is "end of life" is defined way too soon for portable hard drives. The mechanical parts have a 4% annual failure rate, or a half-life of 12.5 years. The software should be supported for that long.

[deleted]

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does it come with any guarantees of lifetime for those patches though? This guarantee is called "consumer law". The requirement of a patch means that the product you paid for was broken. So yes, they absolutely have a legal requirement to fix that (or refund your purchase), and compensate for any damages that their broken product caused you. Not that this is enforced particularly often, but given Apple's ubiquity an…

But lifetime is evidently not as long as the device lasts, as we see with Microsoft. Plenty of XP machines are still alive out there and they have long been out of support. So while Apple does provide a lot of support for older devices seemingly, how much are they legally/contractually required to provide currently?

> But lifetime is evidently not as long as the device lasts, as we see with Microsoft. Plenty of XP machines are still alive out there and they have long been out of support.

This will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but where I live, "lifetime" is defined as the period of time in which a product is reasonably expected to last.

Talking about "XP machines" is a bit weird, because you're really talking about two different products there. You can very easily install whatever OS you want on there, so it's not an "XP machine", it's a machine and then a copy of XP.

In that specific case, the expected lifespan of a desktop computer is probably on the order of a decade. Maybe you'll have to replace a component or two (particularly HDD) before then, but you wouldn't expect to need serious repair work prior to that. But also, you wouldn't feel cheated if it died after 11 years.

The lifetime of the Operating System is another matter entirely. It's probably reasonable to make the case that the OS's lifetime is infinite, given that software doesn't degrade in the same way physical components do - if a non-networked program is broken in 2021 it was broken in 2001 as well (assuming you're running the same functional hardware, which isn't Microsoft's problem). It's also totally reasonable to make the case that the OS's expected lifetime is similar to the lifetime of the hardware it's going to be installed on, and I think this is probably the stronger case.

But whichever of those you side with, it doesn't really matter. If you buy a washing machine and it breaks after 2 years, you're entitled to either a full refund, or a replacement. If you opt for a replacement, the company doesn't have to send you the exact same model of washing machine, just something that's equivalent. Similarly, if there's a bug in Windows XP that renders it broken (e.g., a critical vulnerability that makes it impossible to enable network connectivity without getting your machine compromised), then Microsoft can just go "here's a copy of Windows 10, go buck wild". Even if you operate under the idea that software does not have a lifetime, Microsoft are still providing updates for what is fundamentally the same product (Windows). That it's not specifically Windows XP isn't really a problem in terms of their legal responsibilities.

Now, could you call Microsoft up right now and finagle yourself a free copy of Windows 10 just because there's some unpatched vulnerability in Windows XP? I'm not sure, but I reckon there's a chance they'd do it just to get you off their backs. It's not like there aren't millions of pirated copies out there anyway.

> how much [support] are [Apple] legally/contractually required to provide currently?

The expected lifetime of a phone is lower than that of a desktop computer (for many reasons), so I'd say around 5-6 years per device. The software/hardware distinction mentioned above doesn't really exist for devices that Apple sells seeing as they actively try to stop you from installing any software that they don't explicitly approve of, so that would cover both hardware defects and software defects.

At an absolute minimum it would be 3 years, as if Apple tried to argue otherwise you could very easily point to things like their environmental impact reports that assume a lifespan of 3 years per device (and even describe this as "conservative"!).

That said, as far as I'm aware Apple typically goes above and beyond their legal support requirements for software on their devices. They did get sued where I live over warranty periods (they were claiming that customers needed to pay extra to get warranty for more than 12 months, which is absolutely false), but that was in relation to hardware.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it ruins the brand. This sort of incompetence and gross negligence ought to cripple companies.

If WD is gone, are you going to buy drives from Seagate, seriously? I've had 3 hard drives from Seagate just fail by itself before, 0 from WD so far. HGST used to be good, but sold to WD. I have no experience with Toshiba, but they have less product diversity and higher price.

[deleted]

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#349
post #3

There are two kinds of users: those who back up their data, and those who haven't experienced a data loss yet. This is your daily reminder that anything that's connected is not a backup . Yes, that includes the hard drive in your machine. For that matter, RAID is not a backup solution. Yes, that includes cloud sync (Dropbox/OneDrive/GDrive/etc) that propagates changes automatically. That's not backup. And that includ…

The most reliable backup avaliable to a common man seems to be burning blueray disks and then posting to different friends/family

And then because that is so cumbersome and expensive, it gets done only once and when you have a disaster, you can restore your backup from a few years ago.

Re: WD My Book users wake up to find their data deleted

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it ruins the brand. This sort of incompetence and gross negligence ought to cripple companies.

If WD is gone, are you going to buy drives from Seagate, seriously? I've had 3 hard drives from Seagate just fail by itself before, 0 from WD so far. HGST used to be good, but sold to WD. I have no experience with Toshiba, but they have less product diversity and higher price.

Since we’re being anecdotal here, I’ve > 5 seagate drives, one that’s more than 12 years old that hasn’t failed on me.
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