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Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

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Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#81

Post by goldenchrome »

DSingularity wrote: post #69
goldenchrome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you're starting your own business then it could help you to work as much as you can. However, most people do not run their own business. Most people are low-level code monkeys in large firms where individual efforts aren't business critical. When your project gets cancelled for the 3rd time and you still get a raise, it finally clicks that your work doesn't really matter. This takes a psychological toll. As a…

Yeah, or you can avoid all that by going to startups.

And do a lot more work for way less money? Your work will have more impact, that's for sure. But at some point you'll have a higher-level realization that you're still working in a capitalist hellhole and you're not being fairly compensated for the risk compared to the VCs or the founders. If I was going to work in a startup or FAANG from 22-30, I'd pick FAANG for the guaranteed million dollars in the bank.

The only exception I'd personally make is to found a startup with people I enjoy on a problem that I'm personally motivated by. This is basically a band for capitalistic nerds. Even then, you still have to allow VCs to suck out your soul.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#82

Post by xf1cf »

isatty wrote: post #25
paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

What’s wrong with an hour long lunch? Isn’t that normal?

At least in the states most places require you to "make up" your lunch. So normally you'd show up at 8 and work until 5 to make up for an hour lunch. This is true for both hourly and salary.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#83

Post by kumarvvr »

throw123123123 wrote: post #76
kumarvvr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government doesn't make laws that define broad principles, capitalism will eat you alive. Employers are greedy and evil. Their focus is profit maximization. Not employee well being. Given the chance, do you really think employers will even give vacation days to employees? No way. They will want you to work 24/7 if the govt. is ok with it.

Where do you think the salary comes from in the beginning?

At the beginning of civilized society? From the government itself. Then it slowly evolves into capital flow to people closely connected to the government (aristocrats, royalty, etc) and then to common people through banks.

You seem to imply that for any entrepreneurship, you need to have no worker protections at all. But that is simply false.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#84

Post by PraetorianGourd »

cableshaft wrote: post #26
eric4smith wrote: post #4

Big mistake. It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan. A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere. But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before. (Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)

What's with this obsession to 'get back to where we were before'? Where we were before was broken, and the pandemic helped reveal that. Poor work/life balance, income inequality, industries built on JIT processes which fail spectacularly when the unexpected happens (see lumber, shipping containers, semiconductors, etc), an unfortunate wake-up call that even with entire industries shut down and almost no flights and c…

Honestly, I can only imagine this is informed by a relatively privileged place in society.

First of all, your focus on this boogeyman of work/life balance assumes that all but a small percent of the global population even has enough autonomy in their employment to enjoy any balance whatsoever. Most everyone in the world is at sustenance levels of labor, "work/life balance" is the work of being alive. Secondly, JIT everything worked for the past 100 years, failed during an unprecedented in history event (we've had pandemics, but we've never "shut down" society) and will probably recover to do well until the next once-in-a-century event. Solving the global emissions crises isn't going to occur via the wealthiest working remotely or "learning to live with less". Population growth is far and away the biggest contributor to global climate change. Not your commute to the office, but growing enough food, building enough homes and providing for nearly 10 billion people and counting. Again, most of these people don't have anywhere near the luxury of bemoaning a poor work/life balance.

It is so telling that the answer you see to solve the woes of modern society -- which as you are commenting on HN, you and me and the rest of us are beneficiaries of -- is to work less and remotely. What sacrifice you make for the good of the world!

I am sorry I just am beyond over the sanctimony and self-importance of everyone. Now that _you_ have _yours_ and can relax in relative comfort, lets call it a day and cut off the engine that rose you and yours out of poverty for those poor schmucks still dreaming of the comfort of a 40-hour work week.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#85

Post by [deleted] »

bob1029 wrote: post #35
paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

> absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week You are being a little broad with this statement. One can easily put in 60+ hours for weeks on end and be incredibly productive while doing it. Its all circumstantial. If you have no family, are the sole founder in the company, and really enjoy what you are doing, why the fuck would you stop at a 40 hour work week? Not all of us loathe the thing w…

[deleted]

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#87

Post by whateveracct »

DSingularity wrote: post #69
goldenchrome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you're starting your own business then it could help you to work as much as you can. However, most people do not run their own business. Most people are low-level code monkeys in large firms where individual efforts aren't business critical. When your project gets cancelled for the 3rd time and you still get a raise, it finally clicks that your work doesn't really matter. This takes a psychological toll. As a…

Yeah, or you can avoid all that by going to startups.

Working 60hr/week for a startup is completely illogical. It's the sort of thing you only do drunk on kool-aid.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#88

Post by whateveracct »

xwdv wrote: post #27
paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

Indeed, there’s a sort of Moneyball aspect here. Companies that can accurately pay out only for productive time instead of assuming all 40 hours of a work week are spent producing will make huge savings in payroll, increasing cost efficiency and making it feasible to hire larger cross functional teams. A software engineer probably only really works about 20 hours a week. That’s a 50% savings right there.

You can't actually enforce that. The standard is salaried, at-will employment. The savvy, skilled remote worker is going to be able to put 20-30 hours in - literally just take off 1-2 days a week. But get paid for the "40hrs."

Basically, the rules of the game mean a salaried, remote employee can easily work half time at full pay - gg

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#89

Post by Svperstar »

RikNieu wrote: post #50
isatty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with an hour long lunch? Isn’t that normal?

No, you're expected to eat at your desk and type while chewing.

No lie my first job out of college expected you to eat at your desk and not leave for your lunch break.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#90

Post by JumpCrisscross »

whateveracct wrote: post #87
DSingularity wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, or you can avoid all that by going to startups.

Working 60hr/week for a startup is completely illogical. It's the sort of thing you only do drunk on kool-aid.

> It's the sort of thing you only do drunk on kool-aid

Did not realise believing in a mission is akin to joining a suicide cult.

Work doesn’t have to suck. It doesn’t have to be everyone’s calling. But it is for some of us, and sixty+ hours a week can be time well spent. My time at start-ups has been time around colleagues I love, work I enjoy and a mission I believe in. (I was also decently compensated while there and exorbitantly so on the upside.)

There are countless public servants, non-profit employees, artists and public-company workers putting in those hours and more finding reward in their work. No need to deem everyone who doesn’t fit your lifestyle an idiot.

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