Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

mainichi.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 518 posts

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#11

Post by rawtxapp »

I think more companies should (and probably will consider) 4-day maybe even 3-day workweeks as technology makes us more productive. Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work.

Anecdotally, I managed to accumulate almost 300 hours of vacation time and now switched over to 3-day weeks at a big tech company for a while and even though I really enjoy my work, I feel much better this way and roughly at the same productivity, but a lot happier.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#12

Post by burlesona »

echelon wrote: post #9
eric4smith wrote: post #4

Big mistake. It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan. A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere. But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before. (Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)

Only an owner would feel that way. Without significant equity, what's the point? The worker gets nothing except less life and more stress. The owner sucks up all the benefit.

Perhaps society would be better off if more of us were owners?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#13

Post by lxe »

eric4smith wrote: post #4

Big mistake. It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan. A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere. But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before. (Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)

Not a business owner, but I have a household.

There's always more stuff to be done and it needs to be done faster to keep up.

However I can't just expect everyone to keep "working harder" without sacrificing the household itself.

Just letting things lapse, optimizing for speed through technology, and lowering expectations (un)surprisingly end up with a healthy household.

Business can be run the same way.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#14

Post by [deleted] »

burlesona wrote: post #12
echelon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only an owner would feel that way. Without significant equity, what's the point? The worker gets nothing except less life and more stress. The owner sucks up all the benefit.

Perhaps society would be better off if more of us were owners?

[deleted]

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#15

Post by golergka »

rawtxapp wrote: post #11

I think more companies should (and probably will consider) 4-day maybe even 3-day workweeks as technology makes us more productive. Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work. Anecdotally, I managed to accumulate almost 300 ho…

Many companies would agree if you offered them to work 3 days a week for 60% of your salary. I've done it.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#16

Post by lmm »

mc32 wrote: post #3

Will they let/make people to leave the office at "5PM"? and force them to take earned holidays? Might as well do something about nomikai[1] while they are at it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai

They're trying; they already punish employers whose reported timesheets show employees working above 40 hours/month overtime, and/or whose employees don't report taking off at least 5 days/year. This has certainly reduced reported overtime; the extent to which it has reduced actual overtime is disputed.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#17

Post by paxys »

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, goofing off on the internet, all to maintain the pretense of office culture.

Companies that shuffle things up to prioritize productivity over simply showing up will be set to succeed over the next generation.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#18

Post by reidjs »

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

I think it makes sense to have people available for regular hours, just so that if I ask someone a question I can expect a response today-ish. But, I agree that a lot of meetings should be emails, teambuilding events are usually poorly done, and procrastination is hard to avoid when you've got access to the internet.

Minor nitpick: Is an hour long lunch really that bad?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#19

Post by tasogare »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #7
eric4smith wrote: post #4

Big mistake. It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan. A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere. But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before. (Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)

The objective of work is not "to work", its to be productive. If a 4 day week is more productive than a 5 day, why wouldn't you support it as a business owner?

> The objective of work is not "to work", its to be productive.

Exactly. Which is why of all governments the Japanese one is pushing the 4 day week is really surprising. Here the mentality is really to work for the show, even if resulting in no increase of production whatsoever.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#20

Post by 29athrowaway »

eric4smith wrote: post #4

Big mistake. It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan. A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere. But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before. (Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)

In the short-term, overwork provides a productivity boost. But in the long-term, makes people less productive, people waste their time more... and the worst part: they neglect activities outside work. Like being with their families, or starting a family, or looking for a partner.
Post reply on HN