Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#31

Post by AussieWog93 » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

It's not just tech, it's office jobs in general. People doing 40 hours of actual, necessary work in that environment are the exception.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#32

Post by 73gfg » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

hn8788 wrote: post #28

reidjs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes sense to have people available for regular hours, just so that if I ask someone a question I can expect a response today-ish. But, I agree that a lot of meetings should be emails, teambuilding events are usually poorly done, and procrastination is hard to avoid when you've got access to the internet. Minor nitpick: Is an hour long lunch really that bad?

Yeah, and hour long lunch is pretty long. Most people I know take less time than that to eat at a restaurant, let alone just grabbing your sandwich from the fridge.

Most developed countries have enforced hour long lunch breaks. Grabbing your sandwich from the fridge and eating at your desk is shunned.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#33

Post by spaetzleesser » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #12

echelon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only an owner would feel that way. Without significant equity, what's the point? The worker gets nothing except less life and more stress. The owner sucks up all the benefit.

Perhaps society would be better off if more of us were owners?

It would definitely be better off if more people felt they were participating in economic growth. Over the last few decades most growth has gone to a small number of people and the rest didn't really benefit. This leads to a very cynical and resigned attitude.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#34

Post by qaid » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

Hopefully a move like this will help with their declining birthrate problem

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#35

Post by bob1029 » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

> absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week

You are being a little broad with this statement. One can easily put in 60+ hours for weeks on end and be incredibly productive while doing it. Its all circumstantial. If you have no family, are the sole founder in the company, and really enjoy what you are doing, why the fuck would you stop at a 40 hour work week?

Not all of us loathe the thing we do for the majority of our waking hours.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#36

Post by post_break » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

Will this be one of those Japanese quirks just like 5pm, where they say 4 day work week, but then still work 5-6 work weeks? Like sure, you can leave at 5, but do you want to be the person to leave at 5?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#37

Post by ggm » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

Australia calling: 37.5hr week please. It be law.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#38

Post by tapvt » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #27

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

Indeed, there’s a sort of Moneyball aspect here. Companies that can accurately pay out only for productive time instead of assuming all 40 hours of a work week are spent producing will make huge savings in payroll, increasing cost efficiency and making it feasible to hire larger cross functional teams. A software engineer probably only really works about 20 hours a week. That’s a 50% savings right there.

What’s the definition of “really working?”

I once told a freelance client (hourly) that I solved most of the tough problems while I thought about things in the shower. On that project, very little of my time was spent coding. Client then said I ought to pad my hours by 5 per week. He “got it.”

If simply “coding” is what constitutes “really working,” that seems problematic.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#39

Post by stubish » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #15

rawtxapp wrote: post #11

I think more companies should (and probably will consider) 4-day maybe even 3-day workweeks as technology makes us more productive. Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work. Anecdotally, I managed to accumulate almost 300 ho…

Many companies would agree if you offered them to work 3 days a week for 60% of your salary. I've done it.

Heh. I did it too, as 'transition to retirement'. Liked it so much the transition bit didn't last too long.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#40

Post by ekianjo » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

Why does the government need to be involved if employers actually get better productivity in the first place? Let employers experiment by themselves and see what works best. Another typical example of top-to-bottom leadership in Japan.