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Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

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Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#311

Post by setpatchaddress »

WalterBright wrote: post #174
dehrmann wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can ban the sat and grades and still measure for academic rigor It's harder to normalize performance across schools without a standardized test. > those who placed in a state math competition are likely to have higher academic abilities That sounds like a state-run math SAT that would have the same problems. > And allow the wealthy to better position their kids at the detriment of the middle class. The upper mi…

> The most important thing you can to to prepare for the SAT is do lots of practice tests. Oh phooey. I never prepared for the SATs, and nobody I knew did, either. (Back in the 70s.) Wanna know how to do well on the SATs? Pay attention in school to readin, ritin, and rithmetic. As for SAT prep books, I see them all the time in the thrift store for a couple bucks. The notion that only the wealthy have access to them i…

Times have changed a lot. Your advice might have applied as late as the mid 1990’s, but not much past the turn of the century.

In hindsight, boomers had a really easy time of it, even some we rightly revere for their contributions. Work hard, or be brilliant, or some combination of the two. That’s not enough today. Ken Thompson told the story somewhere of being literally chased down the east coast after graduation by Bell Labs recruiters. That would never happen now.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#312

Post by um_ya »

dane-pgp wrote: post #297
um_ya wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the school voucher idea a lot. Give parents a voucher, as good as cash, for their child and let them choose the school. Private companies will compete for those vouchers, aligning focus on satisfying the parents and the children, rather than the government.

> Private companies will compete for those vouchers "Send your kid to our school, and we promise they'll always score 100% on their tests!"

The parents choose where to spend the voucher.

Unless you think parents value "100% on their tests" more than receiving a quality education.

I trust a parent's judgment more than administrators looking to prop up their numbers.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#313

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

mmarq wrote: post #196
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. > The admission test is not racist per se, but if it results in, say, blacks not being admitted to an institution, it exist in a framework that materially enables racism No. You need to look at conf…

> Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. Ok, but you haven't answered my question > No. You need to look at confounding variables, not just race. It could be that a large percentage of black children in this area come from poor families and must therefore work part-time jobs after school instead of studying. That’s just one example of man…

> Ok, but you haven't answered my question

Your question was “Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them”.

I did indirectly. To be more explicit, I suspect the common answer is no: They do not care about school because they have other, more pressing needs besides school.

> when they are 10 because they have to work

If you want to focus solely on 10 year olds and not teenagers, and ignore that I wrote working is “just one example of many possibilities” , then you are probably purposely missing my point.

I agree most 10 year olds are not working. Substitute “working” or “poverty” with some other problem at home and you’ll get the same result. Alcoholic parent, drug addicted parent, parent with major mental illness, homeless parent, absent parents, foster home life, etc.

Use your imagination.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#314

Post by QuarterReptile »

chrisseaton wrote: post #207
zepto wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're tearing down a straw man friend, I didn't say anything about tutoring or homeschooling. No straw man involved. I don’t think you’ve thought through the implications of ‘getting rid of private school’. The point is that to ban private schools you’d also have to ban homeschooling.

> The point is that to ban private schools you’d also have to ban homeschooling. Why? You can homeschool your children if you want. They just have to be at state school during state school hours like anyone else. So you'll have to homeschool in your own time, like everything else you have to do in your own time. (I'm not in favour of banning private schools, but your argument doesn't make sense regardless.)

Surely you recognize that you're being obtuse with this statement. Otherwise you're suggesting either a zero value for time, or that homeschooling students do their sleeping while at state schools (which is a good recommendation, if you're already stuck attending them.)

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#315

Post by chrisseaton »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #314
chrisseaton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that to ban private schools you’d also have to ban homeschooling. Why? You can homeschool your children if you want. They just have to be at state school during state school hours like anyone else. So you'll have to homeschool in your own time, like everything else you have to do in your own time. (I'm not in favour of banning private schools, but your argument doesn't make sense regardless.)

Surely you recognize that you're being obtuse with this statement. Otherwise you're suggesting either a zero value for time, or that homeschooling students do their sleeping while at state schools (which is a good recommendation, if you're already stuck attending them.)

> Surely you recognize that you're being obtuse with this statement.

No?

Everyone has to go to school during normal school hours. That's a simple flat rule.

What you do otherwise in your own time to teach about your own values is up to you. That seems completely reasonable, and also practicable for people with particular religious or other social requirements for education, to me.

(If you were in favour of requiring attendance at state education, which I'm not.)

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#316

Post by hef19898 »

dnndev wrote: post #279
hef19898 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lack of education is one of the most pressing issues in western democracies. Reducing that doesn't look like a good idea to me.

I agree with you but we need to re-think education. The current education system is not working in general. Class rooms are over crowded and not enough teachers. A pre-recorded video you can pause and rewind would be more beneficial than being corralled into an overcrowded stale box and expected to learn.

Looking at the US from central Europe, I see so much weird stuff. Like elected boards of education, at county level, that have actual power. Just why? There is so much broken with the German system (early selection of school types in 4th grade, social unfairness, lack of digitalisation), and still it is giving everyone a rather solid basic education of 9 years, one you can only opt out by leaving Germany.

IMHO, this is a good thing. Same for France, Austria and most other EU countries I know of. Like healthcare, a public system is working in most developed countries. Except the US.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#317

Post by barry-cotter »

glitchc wrote: post #291

In North America, teachers are grossly underpaid and their ability to discipline poor performance has been entirely eviscerated. It’s not just SF, look at what’s happening in Vancouver: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-cutting-honours-... The problem is the administration: The board that sets the standards and the parents and politicians who sit on those boards. The solution is this: Ban anyone without a m…

https://www.heritage.org/education/report/assessing-the-comp...

> Workers who switch from non-teaching jobs to teaching jobs receive a wage increase of roughly 9 percent. Teachers who change to non-teaching jobs, on the other hand, see their wages decrease by roughly 3 percent. This is the opposite of what one would expect if teachers were underpaid.

https://www.heritage.org/education/report/critical-issues-as...

> Our recent report, “Assessing the Compensation of Public-School Teachers,” [1] concluded that, on average, public-school teachers receive total compensation that is roughly 50 percent higher than what they would receive in private-sector employment. While salaries are at appropriate levels, fringe benefits push teacher compensation far ahead of what private-sector workers enjoy. Consequently, recruiting more effective teachers for public schools will be much more difficult than simply raising salaries.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#318

Post by mmarq »

hef19898 wrote: post #285
WalterBright wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we have any data on the correlation between high-school admission criteria and inventing the Covid vaccine or whatever? Caltech requires good grades as criteria for admission. Caltech graduates have a disproportionately high percentage of Nobel prizes. https://www.caltech.edu/about/legacy/awards-and-honors/nobel... BTW, I think the mRNA vaccine technology is worthy of a Nobel Prize. Don't you?

Wasn't the most successful mRNA vaccine developed by migrants working in Germany?

The CEO of BioNTech, when he was 10, wasn't considered good enough to attend a Gymnasium.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#319

Post by tolbish »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #302
tolbish wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of 10 year old is in high school and works a part time job?

It’s an example for teens, not 10-year olds. If you can’t imagine an age-appropriate example for 10-year olds, allow me to suggest an alcoholic, drug addict, homeless, or abusive parent that gets in the way of a 10 year old studying and getting to school on time.

And you think the solution is to give these families cash?

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#320

Post by mmarq »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #313
mmarq wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. Ok, but you haven't answered my question > No. You need to look at confounding variables, not just race. It could be that a large percentage of black children in this area come from poor families and must therefore work part-time jobs after school instead of studying. That’s just one example of man…

> Ok, but you haven't answered my question Your question was “Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them”. I did indirectly. To be more explicit, I suspect the common answer is no: They do not care about school because they have other, more pressing needs besides school. > when they are 10 because they have to work If you want to focus solely on 10 year olds a…

> Your question was “Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them”. > My indirect answer is not necessarily, although there may be some for whom the answer is yes. I suspect the more common answer is no: They do not care about school because they have other, more pressing needs besides school.

So, the answer is: no, these kids are not broken.

> If you want to focus solely on 10 year olds and not teenagers, and ignore that I wrote working is “just one example of many possibilities” , then you are probably purposely missing my point.

You said kids can't write essay because they have to work. It sounds rather absurd to me.

> I agree most 10 year olds are not working. Substitute “working” or “poverty” with some other problem at home and you’ll get the same result. Alcoholic parent, drug addicted parent, parent with major mental illness, homeless parent, absent parents, foster home life, etc.

Fine, so we are excluding them because they are poor or disadvantaged, which was my initial point. And we are calling it "merit" because we ask them to write an essay.

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