Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#191

Post by tolbish » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #161

mmarq wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you read the article? Yes, selective admissions filter out “bad” students including the type of students who don’t care about school who hold back students who do care What do we do about these 10 year olds? We assume they are not "high school" material and we put them in the school for dumb kids? Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them and so the sch…

> Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. > The admission test is not racist per se, but if it results in, say, blacks not being admitted to an institution, it exist in a framework that materially enables racism No. You need to look at conf…

What kind of 10 year old is in high school and works a part time job?

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#192

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:39 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #184

hellbannedguy wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The teachers were worried about Covid. Kids weren't vaccinated.

Kids don't need to be vaccinated. Adults who are concerned about it, including teachers, should be. Keeping schools closed because children aren't vaccinated is irrational.

> Kids don't need to be vaccinated.

A large unvaccinated reservoir population in constant contact with the vaccinated population is how you breed variants that are, e.g., more dangerous to young people (like Delta already is) and more likely to break through existing vaccines (which Delta also is, though not intensely so from the information I've seen.)

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#193

Post by golemiprague » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:42 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #74

brianwawok wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No child left behind. It’s been ruled that it’s better that all students get to 20-80% knowledge then some get 100% and some get 0%. Which is why many people choose to go to private schools if you want to not be limited by this.

Surely this can be solved by streaming? Here in the UK we had bottom sets for the kids that were struggling, and top sets for kids who excelled. This meant that the learning pace could be tailored for each group. Still probably didn't stretch the top set kids as much as private schools could, which is why I am in favour of abolishing all private and grammar schools and making the resources available to those schools…

The advantage of a private school is not the extra gym equipment or computer or any other resources, it is the social class that matter. If you don't pay for private school you will pay for location. There is no actual mixing, people just pay more to be around people similar to themselves and the cost of that will manifest in house prices instead of school prices.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#194

Post by staticassertion » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:42 PM UTC

nverno wrote: post #181

staticassertion wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence at all that AP classes and high GPAs leads to success, when controlling for other variables?

GPA should be a result of mastering the material. Assuming that is roughly the case, if you ever go on to use any of the skills you were supposed to learn in school (math, computing, etc) you are asking if having learned those skills would help you perform those skills? I doubt there will ever be a way to satisfactorily control for other variables when it comes to these sorts of real-life studies (there is a reason t…

So the answer is no.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#195

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #166

WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we do not take advantage of the more capable students because of equity, what will the future be without people who can do the sorts of things that require highly capable individuals? No iphones, electric cars, or covid vaccines, for example. Even the communists realized that when you've got smart students, take advantage and educate them as best you can. The third reich idiotically drove out their best scientists…

Is there any evidence at all that AP classes and high GPAs leads to success, when controlling for other variables?

[deleted]

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#196

Post by mmarq » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #161

mmarq wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you read the article? Yes, selective admissions filter out “bad” students including the type of students who don’t care about school who hold back students who do care What do we do about these 10 year olds? We assume they are not "high school" material and we put them in the school for dumb kids? Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them and so the sch…

> Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. > The admission test is not racist per se, but if it results in, say, blacks not being admitted to an institution, it exist in a framework that materially enables racism No. You need to look at conf…

> Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork.

Ok, but you haven't answered my question

> No. You need to look at confounding variables, not just race. It could be that a large percentage of black children in this area come from poor families and must therefore work part-time jobs after school instead of studying. That’s just one example of many possibilities. “Correcting” the problem by putting these children into this special school does nothing to change their poverty: they still must work after school and can’t study. And that means they can’t keep up with the other children in this privileged school. Your solution is probably to make the schoolwork easier and force everyone to suffer the same fate. My solution is to give that family money so their high school kid doesn’t have to work to help support his family.

Children not being able to write a good essay when they are 10 because they have to work, is quite a degenerate case and I hope it is not the norm for those who are not admitted at this special school. The majority of 10-year-old kids, who aren't employed in violation of child labour laws, are smart enough to attend highschool without the need to make schoolwork easier.

> In reality, your solution is the one that gets chosen because of the wokeness movement.

This wokeness movement is not something I'm familiar with or affiliated to.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#197

Post by LeegleechN » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

newbie2020 wrote: post #54

linuxftw wrote: post #10

Wow, lot's to unravel in this one. First, the kids are trying to skip out on mindless work like book reports. Most of the students aren't bright enough to fool the teacher in the anecdotes, but probably there are some that do. Next, there's the discipline issue. Yes, they stopped suspending kids in a lot of places because they realized those kids would just be left alone at home all day, and the only reason those kid…

You think homework is useless? That’s the main way to learn…

Actually doing the material (as opposed to sitting in a lecture) is the way to learn, but that could be done in class.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#198

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

mmarq wrote: post #182

WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we do not take advantage of the more capable students because of equity, what will the future be without people who can do the sorts of things that require highly capable individuals? No iphones, electric cars, or covid vaccines, for example. Even the communists realized that when you've got smart students, take advantage and educate them as best you can. The third reich idiotically drove out their best scientists…

> If we do not take advantage of the more capable students because of equity, what will the future of the country be without people who can do the sorts of things that require highly capable individuals? > No iphones, electric cars, or covid vaccines, for example. Do we have any data on the correlation between high-school admission criteria and inventing the Covid vaccine or whatever? We are not talking about taking…

> Do we have any data on the correlation between high-school admission criteria and inventing the Covid vaccine or whatever?

Caltech requires good grades as criteria for admission. Caltech graduates have a disproportionately high percentage of Nobel prizes.

https://www.caltech.edu/about/legacy/awards-and-honors/nobel...

BTW, I think the mRNA vaccine technology is worthy of a Nobel Prize. Don't you?

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#199

Post by Popegaf » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

Ivdg3 wrote: post #169

dnndev wrote: post #155

Public school is broken and we all know it - in general. We need competent administrators, more teachers and smaller classes. Parents need more time to teach their children what is not and should not be taught at school. Kudos to parents who can afford and decide to be more hands on with children’s education. It is heartbreaking when all a child has is public school.

No, public school in the United States is broken. They're quite functional in the majority of the OECD. If you are a parent and are in SF this should be a wake up call. The city is rapidly failing, it's in your best interest to get out now.

> They're quite functional in the majority of the OECD.

Functional isn't what should be aimed for: excellent should be the mark. Right now, the majority still forces their students into thought boxes (e.g if you fail maths at school, you're supposedly balls at engineering for the rest of your life), pretends that spending 12 years memorizing facts is the pinnacle of education, employs unmotivated teachers with below-average salaries, and teaches topics from the last century.

My university experience was simply a continuation of highschool and being treated like a child. Exams we still about memorizing with no focus on understanding, attendance was obligatory, tech was sometimes >20 years old, and so on and so forth.

Even the systems and curriculums within states (!= country) can vary pretty heavily. The bologna reform supposedly made comparing degrees between countries better, but a bachelor in mechanical engineering may mean something entirely different in Poland and Spain.

Better doesn't automatically mean good.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#200

Post by Talanes » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

nverno wrote: post #181

staticassertion wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence at all that AP classes and high GPAs leads to success, when controlling for other variables?

GPA should be a result of mastering the material. Assuming that is roughly the case, if you ever go on to use any of the skills you were supposed to learn in school (math, computing, etc) you are asking if having learned those skills would help you perform those skills? I doubt there will ever be a way to satisfactorily control for other variables when it comes to these sorts of real-life studies (there is a reason t…

>GPA should be a result of mastering the material.

I know that personally my grades don't tend to correlate with my actual knowledge at all. I've failed things because I've been bored with them, and I've gotten perfect grades on things I don't understand at all outside the tested material.