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North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

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Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, that gas-pumping law comes up for vote every few years, and each time it’s re-approved. For the most part, people like it.

It’s become a matter of pride for Oregonians - kind of like how hazing rituals persist. It would be amusing if Oregon required an electrician to plug in an EV at a public charger.

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Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#252
post #182
post #12

Useless bureaucracy hinders innovation and progress. I live in Spain where engineering is very regulated. This results in some engineers spending 6+ years in university to gain the same status as their international peers who studied for 3 or 4 years. There's no point in enforcing this other than collecting fees to pay the salaries of people who don't really do anything.

Engineering licenses aren't about innovation or progress. They're about making sure that the same lessons aren't constantly relearned at great cost to customers and society.

Pretty much. If an engineer is in a bubble of software engineering, it's easy to forget there are other engineering professions where a lack of ethics or a poor understanding of engineering gets people killed or causes damage. For most of the people here on HN, getting a license doesn't really matter much- they fall under the umbrella exception, so they can call themselves engineers. The license indicates some floor of engineering competency, which I think is fair. I can't speak for other engineering disciplines, but I aced the computer engineering exam with minimal preparation and sleep. Having 50% fail rates is not uncommon for these exams- do people really want engineers with a bad grasp of the basics making critical design decisions?

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#253
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, as I said in my first comment I don't consider myself able to judge where the line should be drawn regarding this real person, so I created a hypothetical person to see if you still believed it would be ridiculous to fire any nurse for anything they say outside work hours.

Yes, if she's giving her patients bad medical advice that goes contrary to accepted best practices then she should be asked to stop or find work elsewhere. And if she's standing in the hallway doing the same with people who aren't her patients she could probably be safely fired for being a nuisance. There are appropriate public forums for disagreement and in the hallway of your hospital is probably not it.

Your honest view is that if a nurse is committing medical malpractice the furthest extent of punishment should be "find work elsewhere"?

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#254

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

What is engineering other than expressing an opinion? Engineers are trained to have expert opinions. They are expected to consider all relevant factors. In AEC the relevant factors include compliance with relevant laws and rules such as the building codes and all the documents incorporated by reference. It is a matter of life safety and the regulation of construction is at least as old as the Code of Hammurabi…it pre…

Why is a license more important than skill and experience? So you’ll trust a person that’s failed the license multiple times, is barely able to do the job, and has a history of failing at their job because they have a license? Because those issues still happen with licensed professionals. A license doesn’t prove aptitude, it just proves you passed a test. I’ve met multiple structural engineers that relied heavily on computer software for validation because they couldn’t understand calculus

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#255
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a licensed engineer is not a requirement to being an "expert" in expert testimony. You are an expert if the court deems you an expert and the opposing counsel has agreed. Full stop. I think that the only thing an engineering license should grant you, in this case, is the right to call yourself a licensed engineer, which conveys some degree of authority. I don't think he made that claim.

Not sure why people are disagreeing. I've co-written an expert witness report and neither myself nor my co-author were licensed software engineers--which I don't believe you can even get licensed for any longer in the US. Of course, both the lawyers and the judge can take both credentials and experience into account when evaluating the credibility of such a report. Obviously, if someone isn't licensed they can't pres…

The computer engineering exam contains software engineering components fwiw.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#256
Licensing boards are for one thing - to issue licenses. If the government further wants to require a license for working on government project, fine.

But to decide a license is needed for anything other than "advertising you have a license" is perverted. Some government official who wants to control people, not keep them safe and organized. Its all about power I guess.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here the practice of engineering is specifically set out in statute, regulation, and legal precedent. As are the duties of the board, its process, penalties for violations, and appeals processes. The board is investigating a case based on its authority. The authority exists via democratic process originating with the legislative process and state constitution. The regulation of engineering is within the scope of the…

You didn't address the substantive part of my comment. Straightforwardly under the regime you've described, individuals are not only prevented from, but can be actively punished for: 1. Using mathematical formulas to demonstrate facts, such as pointing out that speed can be calculated by distance over time. 2. Pointing out how a red light camera fails to meet required implementation details. 3. Pointing out how a bri…

He claims that this all supported by precedent (and the US Constitution itself!), without citing any of the precedent.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acupuncture is snake oil, but I would very much prefer knowing that my acupuncturist has been checked out by someone qualified to check their skills. Just because it's snake oil doesn't mean that there are not expectations around its safety and application.

That economists and libertarians hate that cosmetologists have to be licensed is what convinced me they aren't serious thinkers. Because hepatitis is real. Same deal with an acupuncturist.

Food poisoning is real too, and I got a food handling certificate online in 20 minutes for about $20. Is cosmetology that much more complicated (safety-wise; incompetence has its own consequences, same as in the restaurant industry) than food handling? I really have no idea.

It does seem like quite a few of the things that require licenses in Texas would be just as safe with a certificate and random inspections (like they do with food handlers).

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#260

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

Every time something like this comes up, I think the same thing:

"Register as a professional engineer, jerk."

If you've done actual engineering work for 20+ years, getting a PE is neither that hard nor that expensive and confers quite a bit of legal protection as well.

If your cause-du-jour isn't worth taking the time to go get a PE, perhaps you don't believe in it very much.

As for the vast hordes of HN who think they're a software "engineer" because they can open Visual Studio Code, go pass the the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering) exam and get back to me. Every professional engineer has passed that exam. If you can't muster up that much effort, why should we call you "engineer"?

> Is giving a speech about how to treat a broken bone considered ‘practicing medicine’?

Quite possibly. And what happens when that speech gives the WRONG treatment for a broken bone?

> Who gets to decide the answer.

Generally the licensing board for precisely the reason I gave above.

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