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North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

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Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#231

Post by brudgers »

mindslight wrote: post #192
brudgers wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person subject to the complaint prepared stormwater calculations and submitted it as evidence in a legal proceeding. The letter that person received from the board is linked in the article. It states the person is charged and gives them the opportunity for a written response. Civil engineering typically requires a PE.

Engineering generally refers to design and building , of which analysis is a single part. So it's not immediately apparent that Nutt was practicing engineering at all. It's more accurate to say that the kind of projects civil engineers work on generally end up requiring a PE, as a condition of actually being built. Small time civil engineering in your own backyard does not require a PE - eg improving drainage, settin…

Here the practice of engineering is specifically set out in statute, regulation, and legal precedent. As are the duties of the board, its process, penalties for violations, and appeals processes.

The board is investigating a case based on its authority. The authority exists via democratic process originating with the legislative process and state constitution.

The regulation of engineering is within the scope of the states per the US Constitution and established legal precedent.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#232

Post by corin_ »

DangitBobby wrote: post #229
corin_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, edit my hypothetical person to not advising their patients, but standing at the hospital entrance after their shift telling all other patients that cigarettes are good for you.

But that's not what's happening either. Why don't we represent the reality with itself. She's expressing an idea publicly that she thinks is important for public safety. She is not hurting her patients by doing this. Idiots are dangerous, but the cure is worse than the disease, if the cure is to destroy people for non-violently expressing their concerns genuinely doing what they believe is in the best interest of the…

Right, as I said in my first comment I don't consider myself able to judge where the line should be drawn regarding this real person, so I created a hypothetical person to see if you still believed it would be ridiculous to fire any nurse for anything they say outside work hours.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#233

Post by Gibbon1 »

bastawhiz wrote: post #196
thaumasiotes wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I appreciate the state trying to make sure the practitioners aren't more snake oil-y than the field at large. What do you imagine you're getting from hypothetical oversight? It is not theoretically possible to be more snake-oily than the field at large.

Acupuncture is snake oil, but I would very much prefer knowing that my acupuncturist has been checked out by someone qualified to check their skills. Just because it's snake oil doesn't mean that there are not expectations around its safety and application.

That economists and libertarians hate that cosmetologists have to be licensed is what convinced me they aren't serious thinkers.

Because hepatitis is real.

Same deal with an acupuncturist.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#234

Post by [deleted] »

tablespoon wrote: post #126
teorema wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably in the minority with this, but I think all licensing laws should be abolished. Even with cases like the one you describe, other mechanisms could be used to handle the problem and those individuals likely at are risk for doing things on their own anyway. I'd say if someone took IV bleach and it caused harm, the appropriate response isn't license revocation, it's a civil or criminal lawsuit. The past year…

> I'm probably in the minority with this, but I think all licensing laws should be abolished. Even with cases like the one you describe, other mechanisms could be used to handle the problem and those individuals likely at are risk for doing things on their own anyway. > I'd say if someone took IV bleach and it caused harm, the appropriate response isn't license revocation, it's a civil or criminal lawsuit. The obviou…

[deleted]

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#235

Post by stevespang »

Hope the I of J files suit against Texas soon enough, for years the State of Texas board has been sending nasty letters to anyone who uses the word "engineer" on their business card, web page, sign, etc. that you have to pay up to them, and take and pass some grade school exam in order to be able to use the word engineer.

Software engineers in Texas all have given up using that title.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#236

Post by nomdep »

dasudasu wrote: post #108
nomdep wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article it says he declared that he wasn’t a licensed engineer. At most, you could argue that his expert testimony is not valid, saying that it is illegal it is a whole different deal. It smells like corruption of the NC government to me.

"I'm not a medical doctor, but here is a bunch of medical advice that should be used to prosecute this defendant." It doesn't sound that great either way. Either you have the expertise to make such judgments, or you don't, and shouldn't try to pass off legal opinions you can't legally make with a disclaimer, as if that absolves everything. I can fully understand someone getting irritated at this and trying to go one…

I am not a lawyer but…

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#237

Post by stevespang »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #142
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33

Texas may do a lot of crazy things when it comes to state government, but one thing I think we definitely got right is the Texas Sunset Commission ( https://www.sunset.texas.gov/ ). Basically, all boards set up by the state government are automatically abolished every 10 years I believe unless the state legislature passes a law to continue the board. So every 10 years the Sunset Commission evaluates agencies/boards a…

What benefits is Texas seeing from the Sunset Commission? https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ shows a lot of what appear to be wholly spurious licensing types: - barbering - cosmetology - dietitians - dyslexia therapy - behavior analysts - polygraph examiners (!) - auctioneers - etc. etc.

Wait till they add chimney sweep, topless dancer, and lap dancer - - - -

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#238

Post by WalterBright »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33

Texas may do a lot of crazy things when it comes to state government, but one thing I think we definitely got right is the Texas Sunset Commission ( https://www.sunset.texas.gov/ ). Basically, all boards set up by the state government are automatically abolished every 10 years I believe unless the state legislature passes a law to continue the board. So every 10 years the Sunset Commission evaluates agencies/boards a…

I've often thought that a 60% majority should be required to pass new laws, and 50% to repeal them.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#239

Post by ghaff »

staticman2 wrote: post #141
hervature wrote: post #133

> But Wayne’s troubles began when he when he agreed to help his son, Kyle, a North Carolina attorney, with a case about a piping system that allegedly flooded a few local homes. Is anyone more disturbed by the fact that a family member can serve as an impartial expert witness?

Expert witnesses are pretty much never impartial. Each attorney picks their own witness subject to the judge's approval on professional qualifications. The attorney, not the judge, chooses the witnesses. They get paid to say what the defense attorney wants them to say or the plaintiff attorney wants them to say. A plaintiff expert witness who doesn't say what the attorney wants will soon be out of work or vice versa.…

>They get paid to say what the defense attorney wants them to say or the plaintiff attorney wants them to say.

Having done this sort of work... Sort of. We were picked in part because we had already publicly written about a case in a way that supported one side's position. (Obviously the side that reached out to us.) There was nothing in our report I didn't personally agree with.

I'd add that my understanding is that, while some people do a relatively large amount of expert witness work--we did not--the preference is that expert witnesses don't do this as a full-time gig where it becomes a matter of supporting what whoever paying them wants.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#240

Post by anigbrowl »

hliyan wrote: post #41
the_lonely_road wrote: post #20

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

This is why the letter of the law is so important, paradoxically. It is never good to have unreasonable/archaic laws in the book and have law enforcement look the other way. Since almost everyone ends up breaking them, it allows law enforcement to basically charge any selected person. Such laws should be struck off the book. I believe in Latin, this is called Lex malla, lex nulla - roughly translates to "No law is be…

You can make a legal argument that an archaic law suddenly being punitively enforced is a dead letter.
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