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North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

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Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#221

Post by _Nat_ »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #142
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33

Texas may do a lot of crazy things when it comes to state government, but one thing I think we definitely got right is the Texas Sunset Commission ( https://www.sunset.texas.gov/ ). Basically, all boards set up by the state government are automatically abolished every 10 years I believe unless the state legislature passes a law to continue the board. So every 10 years the Sunset Commission evaluates agencies/boards a…

What benefits is Texas seeing from the Sunset Commission? https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ shows a lot of what appear to be wholly spurious licensing types: - barbering - cosmetology - dietitians - dyslexia therapy - behavior analysts - polygraph examiners (!) - auctioneers - etc. etc.

> What benefits is Texas seeing from the Sunset Commission? https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ shows a lot of what appear to be wholly spurious licensing types: [...] - dietitians

[Their site](https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/diet/diet.htm) says that:

> The Dietitians program licenses and regulates dietitians in Texas. A license is required to use the titles "Licensed Dietitian" and "Provisionally Licensed Dietitian." A license is not required to use the titles "Dietitian" or "Nutritionist."

Haven't checked the others, but at least that one seems pretty reasonable.

Also, hospitals tend to have licensed-dietitians to handle stuff like making meal-plans for patients, which is apparently a more involved process than one might think, especially for patients with multiple complications.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#222

Post by DangitBobby »

corin_ wrote: post #172
DangitBobby wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they lose their license? They don't need to understand the mechanics of vaccines or immunity to be a proficient nurse, as long as the standard of care they provide follows recommendations and they listen to the doctors around them regarding patient care. What benefit is there? One fewer person in a critical role due to an incredibly punitive decision is obvious downside. It's like sending someone to jail f…

The benefit would be if the downside of having one fewer person doing that work is less than the downside of multiple people hearing wrong advice from someone whose license implies they won't talk nonsense about healthcare. I've no clue myself where the line should be drawn, but there's at least a debate to be had (by people who understand the scenarios a lot better than me). For example, would you say the same about…

Well, is she advising her patients not to get vaccines? Because then she's not following the guidelines for standard of care.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#223

Post by brewdad »

cloverich wrote: post #176
irrational wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Oregon, but grew up outside the state so fortunately I do know how to pump my own gas. One thing that has fascinated me is that our gas is no more expensive, and often cheaper, than surrounding states despite providing many jobs. One benefit of this system was shown recently when no truck beds or plastic bags were filled with gasoline.

But they are paid from some other budget, or perhaps from state income taxes. That has a real effect on something, it’s just not apparent what. Any job that only exists via mandate is taking the place of some other economic activity.

They are paid by the station owners, so the money reduces their profits and perhaps long-term investments in new pumps or other equipment. In reality, the soda and candy inside probably all costs 10 cents more than it otherwise would.

One consequence is that our state gas tax hasn't been raised in decades. That's why our gas is cheaper than across the border in WA. They pay a much higher per gallon tax than we do. My town has gotten around this by adding a $10 a month fee for road improvements to our water bills. Other cities and towns let their roads crumble.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#224

Post by corin_ »

DangitBobby wrote: post #222
corin_ wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit would be if the downside of having one fewer person doing that work is less than the downside of multiple people hearing wrong advice from someone whose license implies they won't talk nonsense about healthcare. I've no clue myself where the line should be drawn, but there's at least a debate to be had (by people who understand the scenarios a lot better than me). For example, would you say the same about…

Well, is she advising her patients not to get vaccines? Because then she's not following the guidelines for standard of care.

Ok, edit my hypothetical person to not advising their patients, but standing at the hospital entrance after their shift telling all other patients that cigarettes are good for you.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#225

Post by bombcar »

sonofhans wrote: post #179
systemvoltage wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon’s gas pumping laws has some hilarious justifications. > “The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon’s weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility” More here: https://medium.com/policy-northwest/the-insanity-of-oregons-... Safety is important but wet pavements are also a hazard when you leave your house or literall…

You know, that gas-pumping law comes up for vote every few years, and each time it’s re-approved. For the most part, people like it.

It’s become a matter of pride for Oregonians - kind of like how hazing rituals persist.

It would be amusing if Oregon required an electrician to plug in an EV at a public charger.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#226

Post by brudgers »

antiterra wrote: post #164
brudgers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is engineering other than expressing an opinion? Engineers are trained to have expert opinions. They are expected to consider all relevant factors. In AEC the relevant factors include compliance with relevant laws and rules such as the building codes and all the documents incorporated by reference. It is a matter of life safety and the regulation of construction is at least as old as the Code of Hammurabi…it pre…

1. This particular engineer worked legally as an engineer for DuPontt due to an industrial exception and was not required to license. There was no corner cut. 2. There is some precedent implying a free speech concern: https://reason.com/2019/01/02/judge-confirms-that-oregon-eng...

My understanding is the events that sparked the investigation were outside of the subject’s workplace/employment. Hence “retired.”

The preponderance of precedent favors the board’s concerns and right to investigate.

Being slightly familiar with North Carolina professional regulations, I suspect this holds true at the state level in particular.

The legal argument is inconsistent. It claims that the regulations don’t apply because the regulations apply via the industrial exemption in the regulations…never mind the retired.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#227

Post by [deleted] »

elteto wrote: post #84

The framing of the title is a bit disingenuous. He is not “talking” about engineering to a bunch of college students. He is providing expert opinion in a court case. This is a whole different deal and I think there is nuance here. Honestly, I don’t like the manipulation with the title and how they are framing the whole thing. Makes me cautious about emitting an opinion.

[deleted]

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#228

Post by specialist »

_Nat_ wrote: post #213
Aerroon wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then go to one that has some kind of recommendation or badge of acupuncture quality. Why should the government do that?

> Why should the government do that? Free-market dynamics require a lot of intellectual overhead. For example, in a theoretical world with unbound computation and information-sharing, all stocks on the stock-market should be perfectly priced, and all doctors should be of known qualities. And all of those supplements in the pharmacy should be of known effect, and priced perfectly given that knowledge. But in more limi…

Yes and:

> intellectual overhead

aka transaction costs.

Licensing, credentials, certification are just the cost of doing business. Open markets are built on transparency, accountability, fair rules, impartial referees, etc.

Sure, it all sucks. The alternative is worse.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#229

Post by DangitBobby »

corin_ wrote: post #224
DangitBobby wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, is she advising her patients not to get vaccines? Because then she's not following the guidelines for standard of care.

Ok, edit my hypothetical person to not advising their patients, but standing at the hospital entrance after their shift telling all other patients that cigarettes are good for you.

But that's not what's happening either. Why don't we represent the reality with itself. She's expressing an idea publicly that she thinks is important for public safety. She is not hurting her patients by doing this. Idiots are dangerous, but the cure is worse than the disease, if the cure is to destroy people for non-violently expressing their concerns genuinely doing what they believe is in the best interest of the community.

I'm not going to pretend to have an answer for what we should do about people like her, but I do know that destroying their lives (squashing genuine, well meaning dissent) is not the answer.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#230

Post by specialist »

silverpepsi wrote: post #174
brianwawok wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should these not be licensed? A dietitian giving bad advice could cause serious harm. A dyslexia therapist could provide no benefit to the patient. A cosmetologist could cause someone's hair to fall out. Like, having something deeper than yelp reviews to help make someone's hair not fall out seems reasonable...

You don't have enough personal experience perhaps to know licensing is more about power and protectionist rakets than the claimed purpose. My dad was a doctor who lost his license (nothing dramatic or gossip-worthy involved). He was primarily treating opiate addicts with something called Suboxone. It is sensitive enough that the state puts a hard limit on patients you can have - 100. This means people who need the tr…

The solution to regulatory capture is to abolish regulations?
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