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North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

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Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#81

Post by beebeepka »

travisjungroth wrote: post #73
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33

Texas may do a lot of crazy things when it comes to state government, but one thing I think we definitely got right is the Texas Sunset Commission ( https://www.sunset.texas.gov/ ). Basically, all boards set up by the state government are automatically abolished every 10 years I believe unless the state legislature passes a law to continue the board. So every 10 years the Sunset Commission evaluates agencies/boards a…

The worst example of this is Oregon has their own version of the FAA. It’s grandfathered in because it was established before the FAA. You pay $12 a year for an Oregon pilot’s registration. And in return for this bureaucracy, society gets... nothing.

Does it not create jobs?

Not saying it's good nor bad.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#84

Post by elteto »

The framing of the title is a bit disingenuous. He is not “talking” about engineering to a bunch of college students. He is providing expert opinion in a court case. This is a whole different deal and I think there is nuance here.

Honestly, I don’t like the manipulation with the title and how they are framing the whole thing. Makes me cautious about emitting an opinion.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#85

Post by ReptileMan »

hliyan wrote: post #41
the_lonely_road wrote: post #20

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

This is why the letter of the law is so important, paradoxically. It is never good to have unreasonable/archaic laws in the book and have law enforcement look the other way. Since almost everyone ends up breaking them, it allows law enforcement to basically charge any selected person. Such laws should be struck off the book. I believe in Latin, this is called Lex malla, lex nulla - roughly translates to "No law is be…

This is literally MO of every totalitarian government - make it impossible to not be a law breaker, so we can arrest you at anytime.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#86

Post by carlmr »

chiph wrote: post #43
civil_engineer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he represented himself as an engineer or engineering expert in a legal proceeding, well, that’s where he may have made a mis-step. Even if it’s on behalf of his son. Maybe, he should have prefaced every sentence with IANAE, but…

That's what he did (mentioned in the article). He prefaced his testimony with that he was not a licensed engineer but had worked in the industry for many years. A better question would be whether he had done piping & fluids vs. another civil engineering specialty such as bridge design.

I think this preface should be enough, he didn't claim to be something he isn't.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#87

Post by travisjungroth »

beebeepka wrote: post #81
travisjungroth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst example of this is Oregon has their own version of the FAA. It’s grandfathered in because it was established before the FAA. You pay $12 a year for an Oregon pilot’s registration. And in return for this bureaucracy, society gets... nothing.

Does it not create jobs? Not saying it's good nor bad.

According to their website, there are 15.5 FT employees. I don't consider healthy adults getting paid to do meaningless work a benefit to society.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#88

Post by greesil »

dylan604 wrote: post #79
hhfnkyfvj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't Reddit, you can keep the little "clever" quips to yourself.

Thanks. I was confused what website I was using. I'm pretty sure there's an HN rule about not telling people this isn't reddit: "Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills."

It has become more political in the past year I've noticed. Oh well. And the same arguments over and over and over and over.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#89

Post by benglish11 »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #78
fragileone wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

https://oll.libertyfund.org/quote/thomas-jefferson-on-whethe... > The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water… (But) between society and society, or generation and generation there is no municipal obligation, no umpire but the law of nature. We seem not to have perceived that, by the law of nature, one generation is t…

Thomas Jefferson’s opinion on this issue doesn’t mean “The US was founded on this principle”.

If the US were founded on this principle… it would have been part of the constitution.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#90

Post by mindslight »

brudgers wrote: post #34
the_lonely_road wrote: post #20

What a fascinating case. There are so many details in such a short articles that is each worth its own discussion! Let’s start with my personally theory that hopefully won’t color all of the conversation about the individual points. This guy pissed off some people and those people are using their petty power to make his life hell. It’s like the 10’s of thousands of people jaywalking without issue and then the homeles…

What is engineering other than expressing an opinion? Engineers are trained to have expert opinions. They are expected to consider all relevant factors. In AEC the relevant factors include compliance with relevant laws and rules such as the building codes and all the documents incorporated by reference. It is a matter of life safety and the regulation of construction is at least as old as the Code of Hammurabi…it pre…

No, an engineer without a Professional Engineer license is not "cutting corners". They most likely just don't do the type of work that requires getting a PE.

The article says 80% of engineers are working without a license. From experience, this is especially true for electrical engineering. Someone designing a building's electrical system would have a PE to sign off on plans (or be working under someone with a PE). But someone doing embedded design would not, because there is a completely different approval process for consumer/industrial products - we test rather than simply asserting products are safe because they were designed by a PE.

Without a PE, I am still an engineer. I can say I am an engineer, because "engineer" is not a protected title anywhere in the US. I can speak authoritatively on engineering topics, because I have vast technical knowledge. My opinions on topics I know little about (eg civil engineering) will be tempered with "I think", because knowing one area really well, I am aware of how much I do not know in other areas. Whether anyone chooses to listen to anything I say is their own choice.

What I cannot do is sign off on plans for permits, solicit business that would generally require signing off on plans for permits, or anything else that specifically requires a PE license. Those requirements are in legal force due to the product delivered (eg a bridge requisitioned by the state, a house which needs a building permit) and are not generally applicable for all engineering activity.

There also is the related issue that everybody has the right to technically criticize a situation if they have done the work to make their case. Only a licensed Professional Engineer has the ability to say a bridge is safe, but we all have the right to claim that it is unsafe.

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