North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering • Hacker News Board

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#171

Post by dasudasu » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

lozenge wrote: post #151

tablespoon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just the concept of “jaywalking” as a punishable offense is revolting to me. It's a required compromise to allow pedestrians and high-speed automobile traffic to coexist. This unfairly-dead comment has a good discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27561530 Get rid of it, and you'll either have more pedestrians getting run over (e.g. some distracted guy on his cell phone accidentially rushing out in front…

I always thought it was my desire to live that keeps me from walking into traffic despite any "distractions", but now I learn from you it was the threat of a $250 fine all along.

It also determines who is in the wrong. Cars normally have to yield to pedestrians and are usually presumed at fault if they hit one. The fine is just an extension of formalizing who has the right of way.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#172

Post by corin_ » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

DangitBobby wrote: post #97

deftnerd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do make a good point. It makes me think of the occasional video of a registered nurse standing in front of a City Council saying things like vaccines cause Autism, or the COVID-19 vaccine has tracking chips in it. Seeing that makes me think that they should lose their license, which goes against the feeling I feel in this engineers case. That makes me worry that I'm making my decision based on if I think what the…

Why should they lose their license? They don't need to understand the mechanics of vaccines or immunity to be a proficient nurse, as long as the standard of care they provide follows recommendations and they listen to the doctors around them regarding patient care. What benefit is there? One fewer person in a critical role due to an incredibly punitive decision is obvious downside. It's like sending someone to jail f…

The benefit would be if the downside of having one fewer person doing that work is less than the downside of multiple people hearing wrong advice from someone whose license implies they won't talk nonsense about healthcare.

I've no clue myself where the line should be drawn, but there's at least a debate to be had (by people who understand the scenarios a lot better than me). For example, would you say the same about a nurse who tells every patient they see that smoking cigarettes is the best way to prevent cancer, even if apart from constantly saying that they were doing a fine job in other areas?

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#173

Post by gopiandcode » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #153

Closi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why someone needs to be licensed to provide expert opinion (even in court). It’s just the job of the other side to discredit the expert witness. Engineering licences are really meant to protect unqualified people making bad designs which get made and produce safety/quality issues - their purpose isn’t to work out who should be able to say what. They are about making sure something physical gets built corr…

The obvious reason you might want him to have a license to speak in court is if he's blatently lying in court about engineering you can revoke the license after a legal proceeding and no longer have a paid liar as a tool for attorneys to hire to decieve the judge and jury.

If the expert witness were lying, wouldn't that be perjury, and doesn't that come with its own legal repercussions?

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#174

Post by silverpepsi » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #149

thaumasiotes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What benefits is Texas seeing from the Sunset Commission? https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ shows a lot of what appear to be wholly spurious licensing types: - barbering - cosmetology - dietitians - dyslexia therapy - behavior analysts - polygraph examiners (!) - auctioneers - etc. etc.

Why should these not be licensed? A dietitian giving bad advice could cause serious harm. A dyslexia therapist could provide no benefit to the patient. A cosmetologist could cause someone's hair to fall out. Like, having something deeper than yelp reviews to help make someone's hair not fall out seems reasonable...

You don't have enough personal experience perhaps to know licensing is more about power and protectionist rakets than the claimed purpose.

My dad was a doctor who lost his license (nothing dramatic or gossip-worthy involved). He was primarily treating opiate addicts with something called Suboxone. It is sensitive enough that the state puts a hard limit on patients you can have - 100. This means people who need the treatment are often on waiting lists because the doctors who have the qualification to write Suboxone are often at their 100 patient limit. Father told the medical board they need to find placements for his 100 patients or they will end up dead WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. Medical board couldn't give two shits since that's not their problem, last we know at least three died within 4 months or so of not being able to find a new doctor.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#175

Post by savant_penguin » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #144

travisjungroth wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to their website, there are 15.5 FT employees. I don't consider healthy adults getting paid to do meaningless work a benefit to society.

It can function as a jobs program, giving living wages to more people, and letting them spend their salary back into the economy. But it would be nice if jobs programs produced more benefit.

What generally happens is that a select few get to receive pay for a fake job and everyone else of worse off by having to pay for it by force.

Actual benefit comes when people get paid by other people voluntarily making the exchange

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#176

Post by cloverich » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #167

systemvoltage wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon’s gas pumping laws has some hilarious justifications. > “The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon’s weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility” More here: https://medium.com/policy-northwest/the-insanity-of-oregons-... Safety is important but wet pavements are also a hazard when you leave your house or literall…

I live in Oregon, but grew up outside the state so fortunately I do know how to pump my own gas. One thing that has fascinated me is that our gas is no more expensive, and often cheaper, than surrounding states despite providing many jobs. One benefit of this system was shown recently when no truck beds or plastic bags were filled with gasoline.

But they are paid from some other budget, or perhaps from state income taxes. That has a real effect on something, it’s just not apparent what. Any job that only exists via mandate is taking the place of some other economic activity.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#177

Post by mikeyouse » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #67

flenserboy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credentialism lifts up and empowers the mediocre while cutting off discussion. This results in sclerotic professions and oversight authorities which cannot adapt to changing conditions, usually causing far more and worse long-term damage than any short-term issues they prevent. I can only speak for the US, but look around — this is a real issue in medicine, law, and most anywhere you look, and the problem has been ac…

> the problem has been accelerated by the sheer number of college/grad degrees given out like candy the last 20 years At least in medicine this isn't the case; the AMA effectively limits the number of positions available. The ratio of doctors to patients has hence been steadily decreasing over the past few decades.

This hasn’t been true for decades… it’s one of those “Internet Talking Points” that gets repeated ad nauseam but just isn’t true..

The AMA lobbies intensely for more residency spots and more medical schools and has since at least the debate over the ACA.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#178

Post by beebeepka » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #105

beebeepka wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it not create jobs? Not saying it's good nor bad.

I'm not sure why this is being downvoted. Much, if not all, of politics, on both sides, for ordinary people, is concerning who gets what welfare. For every Oregon FAA there are probably 100 offices in the military and government agricultural sector that provide a small number of good but sort of meaningless jobs. For every 1 soldier actually shooting bullets or 1 bonafide back-bending farmer there are 999 comfy desk…

Indeed. Is a pointless but harmless job worse for society than preventable poverty? I think not.

Is that always the case? No, of course not.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#179

Post by sonofhans » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #123

travisjungroth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst example of this is Oregon has their own version of the FAA. It’s grandfathered in because it was established before the FAA. You pay $12 a year for an Oregon pilot’s registration. And in return for this bureaucracy, society gets... nothing.

Oregon’s gas pumping laws has some hilarious justifications. > “The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon’s weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility” More here: https://medium.com/policy-northwest/the-insanity-of-oregons-... Safety is important but wet pavements are also a hazard when you leave your house or literall…

You know, that gas-pumping law comes up for vote every few years, and each time it’s re-approved. For the most part, people like it.

Re: North Carolina tells retired engineer he can't talk about engineering

#180

Post by EricE » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #149

thaumasiotes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What benefits is Texas seeing from the Sunset Commission? https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/ shows a lot of what appear to be wholly spurious licensing types: - barbering - cosmetology - dietitians - dyslexia therapy - behavior analysts - polygraph examiners (!) - auctioneers - etc. etc.

Why should these not be licensed? A dietitian giving bad advice could cause serious harm. A dyslexia therapist could provide no benefit to the patient. A cosmetologist could cause someone's hair to fall out. Like, having something deeper than yelp reviews to help make someone's hair not fall out seems reasonable...

lol - the problem is these laws restrict far more than they help. Just look at AB-5 in CA - lobbyist driven legislation full of unintended consequences that, amusingly, bit a lot of people in the press (who were pushing it) in the ass since it severely limited what they could do as a freelancer vs. an employee.

All the other licensing requirements do is favor incumbents and restrict competition. Amazon was against paying local sales taxes - until they eventually figured it out; now they are a huge proponent for forcing all online retailers to have to collect all local taxes. Will squeeze out the little guys or drive them into their web store solutions.

Regulations rarely benefit small business or their customers.

Also who seriously pays attention to if someone has a license or not? You can still get a bad haircut or advice from a licensed person. What I find appalling is the more rigorous the licensing the less some people question the people who hold them. Indeed, it's now a thing to criticize any critical thinking around "experts" (such as the anointed one, Saint Fauci) - utterly disgusting.