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Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

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Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#131

Post by ncann »

sho wrote: post #117
rapind wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in considering the changes” In my experience it’s usually one person’s vision behind major design changes (good or bad). It may be “discussed” so long as the discussion doesn’t deviate from boss’s vision (or you’re not a fit for the project).

One I've learned from grim experience is that most of the time, 1 person with a strong vision and the willingness to fight for it is better than 10 or more people just kinda doing their own thing in their own sandbox. Sure, the former might turn out bad. The latter is almost guaranteed to.

This is kinda like the argument between an authoritative government and a democratic one, the former works great until it doesn't. When it works, the former is more efficient and can get things done much more quickly but when things go wrong it can go horribly more wrong as well because the checks and balances aren't there.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#132

Post by mahoho »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #74

I vehemently disagree that vertical space used is negligible. Due to standard aspect ratios, the vertical space of the display is at a premium. 1920*1080 means you have 840 less vertical pixels than horizontal - it makes a lot of sense to me to try to reclaim some of that space for actual content instead of widgets.

But the tradeoff here isn't between a few dozen pixels vertically and a few dozen horizontally. It's 28 vertical pixels in exchange for cutting the horizontal space for the address bar and tab bar each in half, roughly.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#134

Post by pram »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #109
throayobviousl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adguard is 99% the same, and free, and on iOS.

Adguard is NOT free. Beyond that, it is the worst plague of the modern computing age - subscription. An ad blocker has access to extremely invasive data and Adblock wants me to pay them a subscription so they can get my PII and associate it with my browsing? It is also not Open Source so I can't rely on the hope that someone smarter than me would have caught its dirty tricks. I use Safari for a tiny subset of my brow…

Adguard for Safari is both free and open source

https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdGuardForSafari

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#135

Post by umutisik »

What I would like: Infinite tabs, they don’t get too small in the tab bar, newer ones to the right, older ones can be accessed by scrolling left. Older than last 15 don’t take up memory. Tabs get saved into disk/cloud and reappear when you restart the browser like on iOS. Basically so you can put off dealing with your open tabs indefinitely.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#136

Post by pram »

PeterisP wrote: post #69
throayobviousl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adguard is 99% the same, and free, and on iOS.

Is it free? I'm looking at the Mac download now and it says that it's a 14-day trial with a monthly subscription afterwards, and I'm not entirely happy with relying on a subscription-based service.

Adguard for Safari is free. Adguard for Mac is a separate thing (that costs money)

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-for-safari/id144014725...

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#137

Post by read_if_gay_ »

ziml77 wrote: post #123
reflectiv wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically what I tell people when they ask me why I put my start menu and task bar on the left side of the screen.

I find that horizontal space to many times be more constrained. If I toss and IDE and browser window side-by-side so I can code while looking at docs I need to at least close the vertical tabs on my browser to have a sane amount of space left for content. Usually also collapse one of the sidebars in the IDE to get a decent width for the code.

Clearly horizontal space is going to be more constrained than vertical space if you put two windows next to each other horizontally, as you're going from 16:9 to 8:9. But if you stacked them vertically, well obviously vertical space would be even more constrained than that, to the point where it's so useless you don't even think about doing it. So this is an argument for vertical space being more scarce than horizontal space actually.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#138

Post by bluthru »

pourred wrote: post #112
rubyist5eva wrote: post #74

I vehemently disagree that vertical space used is negligible. Due to standard aspect ratios, the vertical space of the display is at a premium. 1920*1080 means you have 840 less vertical pixels than horizontal - it makes a lot of sense to me to try to reclaim some of that space for actual content instead of widgets.

Yet one obvious UI change on Big Sur is they added pointless padding to windows and menus.

The top part of Safari's UI (above the tabs) is about 54 points. There's no reason for it to be above 44 and it could be even less.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#139

Post by d3fault »

elliekelly wrote: post #101
Someone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“but do not work in reality with real data and real users, those that open 35 tabs” That is close to stating that those that open fewer than 35 tabs aren’t real users and, further between the lines, that those people can be ignored. However I think, but don’t have data to confirm it, that they should be catered for and that “those that open 35 tabs” are a vocal minority.

> However I think, but don’t have data to confirm it, that they should be catered for and that “those that open 35 tabs” are a vocal minority. This is the first time I’ve ever even considered the possibility that someone is capable of using a browser with only one or a few tabs open at a time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure they exist, but having a million tabs open is so ingrained in how I consume information on the i…

I usually have a max of 2 windows open with anywhere between 4 and 9 tabs open. We do exist!

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#140

Post by AbrahamParangi »

defaultname wrote: post #11

Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…

Apple has increasingly delivered “looks good, feels bad” design since the Jobs era, and I suspect this is organizationally endemic.
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