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Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

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Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#101

Post by elliekelly »

Someone wrote: post #55
1_player wrote: post #3

The updated Safari has had a baffling UI update. It does not make any sense at all, on THE most important application that's shipped with the operating system. It's those kind of UI ideas that look great on a mockup, but do not work in reality with real data and real users, those that open 35 tabs—behaviour encouraged by macOS windowing system by the way—and now all of those are crammed into a ludicrously small space…

“but do not work in reality with real data and real users, those that open 35 tabs” That is close to stating that those that open fewer than 35 tabs aren’t real users and, further between the lines, that those people can be ignored. However I think, but don’t have data to confirm it, that they should be catered for and that “those that open 35 tabs” are a vocal minority.

> However I think, but don’t have data to confirm it, that they should be catered for and that “those that open 35 tabs” are a vocal minority.

This is the first time I’ve ever even considered the possibility that someone is capable of using a browser with only one or a few tabs open at a time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure they exist, but having a million tabs open is so ingrained in how I consume information on the internet I suppose I kind of forgot it’s possible to do it any other way.

It makes me wonder if I’ve ever had only one tab or window open at a time? Maybe in the 90s? I don’t remember AOL having “tabs” the way browsers do now but I think you could have multiple windows open.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#103

Post by wintermutestwin »

willyt wrote: post #77
rpastuszak wrote: post #59

Am I the only person who likes this change? Normally, I’d have 4-5 tabs that I keep switching between fairly often and then 20-xx most of the time useless, de facto bookmarks. I use a keyboard shortcut with fuzzy find to pick the right one. Reclaiming the address bar space to cram more tabs on the screen is a marginal gain, at least in my case.

I’ve not tried 15 yet, but I really like the idea of named groups of tabs. I have groups of stuff in windows for things that I’m researching and i hate having to open and look at every minimised window to see if that is the group of tabs I’m looking for as it’s often hard to tell from whatever tab url I left that window at before i minimised to the dock.

In Firefox, I use windows for different categories of subject/use case. I use the Titler extension to label the windows.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#105

Post by rangoon626 »

defaultname wrote: post #11

Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…

Yes, but who ever called Classic Mac OS a thoughtless user interface? Even when they redid it with Platinum.

It had far more affordances and consideration than even modern Mac OS, and it showed by (lack of) this commentary against it.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#106

Post by 1_player »

defaultname wrote: post #42
tambourine_man wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …yet they're presented as if they're objective truths. Readability is objective. It can be measured. They keep bending themselves backwards to get out of a problem they inflicted upon themselves. A web browser should be readable first.

Someone's casual opinion about "readability" is not objective. It is the very definition of subjective. I mean, if you've been on HN at all you've seen massive debates about fonts, colors, contrast, and so on, where people have profoundly different opinions about readability. Run a study and then talk. Otherwise it's just subjective observations. Further, we're talking about page theme spreading to the chrome of the…

> Run a study and then talk

Have they? The base of your argument is a classic appeal to authority. They're "very proud, considerate, intentional" designers so they must be right and everybody else wrong.

Where's the data? Aren't unhappy users valid enough data to demonstrate a downgrade in user experience?

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#107

Post by rapind »

defaultname wrote: post #11

Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…

“People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in considering the changes”

In my experience it’s usually one person’s vision behind major design changes (good or bad). It may be “discussed” so long as the discussion doesn’t deviate from boss’s vision (or you’re not a fit for the project).

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#109

Post by wintermutestwin »

throayobviousl wrote: post #10
nikomen wrote: post #7

I’ve considered switching to Safari on my Mac because I had heard that it has stellar performance. However, with no support for uBlock Origin because of their incomplete implementation of the extensions API, and now these UI changes, it looks like I’ll stick with Firefox. I still plan to stay with my Mac because of the ecosystem. I’m one of the few who seems to actually like Windows 10. There are warts in Microsoft’s…

Adguard is 99% the same, and free, and on iOS.

Adguard is NOT free. Beyond that, it is the worst plague of the modern computing age - subscription.

An ad blocker has access to extremely invasive data and Adblock wants me to pay them a subscription so they can get my PII and associate it with my browsing?

It is also not Open Source so I can't rely on the hope that someone smarter than me would have caught its dirty tricks.

I use Safari for a tiny subset of my browsing due to this gaping hole...

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#110

Post by justshowpost »

Seems like the author is so used to the current design language, that they are vehemently opposed to any change.

I personally like that Apple attempts to make websites feel more like applications by making the browser disappear.

Websites have evolved to becoming essentially applications that can run on any platform. And with WASM this is only getting better. This is a great thing!

Do applications have a permanent bookmarks bar, a reload button, a URL bar? No. It's all built into the OS. When you want to open an application, you search in the Dock or in Spotlight. When an application freezes, you force quit and reopen it. I can imagine how Apple in the future integrates the Safari URL bar into Spotlight search. On iOS this is at least partly possible already. Websites become more and more applications.

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