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Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

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Re: Kids need freedom, too

#251

Post by [deleted] »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #209
908B64B197 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, allowing police to arrest and charge a child for bad behavior at school (i.e. won't obey the teacher, outbursts - not for actually criminally violent behavior). Another is lifetime academic and other records. Just send them to a private school where matters are handled privately.

1) Private schools can be expensive, and a few have participation requirements for parents that folks working non-traditional hours can't adhere to. 2) Every private school I lived around growing up was religious, and I'd rather children not have religion forced on them.

[deleted]

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#252

Post by YeezyMode »

gilbetron wrote: post #57

Much as we are finding about obesity being caused by the "food environment", there's an unhealthy "kid environment" in many places these days. I have a 12 year old, and he barely would go run around our neighborhood growing up because there weren't any other kids doing it. We tried to get him to do it, but none of his friends would join him. Other neighborhoods achieve a critical mass and have tons of kids that run a…

Could you explain why you feel bummed about it? You've clearly exposed your child to a world of fulfilling outdoor activities that are far richer than what a group of kids could get up to in a neighborhood. I myself had the freedom as a child that many in this thread fondly remember, and yes, making friends and spending time with them was highly influential. But all my significant memories involve sleepovers, watching movies/playing video games, or family vacations. Simply being allowed to go outside didn't really do much for me, and my most defining life experiences at this point occurred in high school and the two years after graduating.

I think that if you as a parent are giving your child the freedom to go outside and explore however they want, as well as a minimum amount of advice, that's really where the advantage lies. Being told that the world is dangerous and constantly being smothered definitely causes issues but I don't think there's anything inherently valuable about socializing in a very specific way.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#253

Post by potions »

nikolay wrote: post #136
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the way people view pets is pretty inhumane. It just seems so thoroughly selfish to purchase an animal bred to be provide you joy.

I have to agree - maybe outside of dogs, all other pets are not happy. For example, how can "fixing" cats be acceptable?! Just because we don't want to allow cats to mate and inconvenience ourselves, we "fix" them and everybody seems okay with it! How is this not animal cruelty by the book?! Cats grow obese and feel miserable. I've had cats, I let them go in and out, they lived fruitful lives and were not forced to c…

why is this different for dogs?

I have been bothered at times at just how outside the overton window the idea that animals/pets, dog or cats should be able to e.g. see their parents or children, ever again, falls. I'm not a vegan or a big animal person, but it just isn't talked about.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#254

Post by omegaham »

caturopath wrote: post #237
mulmen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Cycling needs good stewardship. The biggest problem with cycling adoption is “cyclists”. My hyperlocal blog has a guy that makes me want to throw my bicycle in the bay just so I’m not associated with him. And I love riding my bike. Cycling needs a “you meet the nicest people on a Honda” moment. E-bikes are a great opportunity for Americans to rediscover motorcycles but unfortunately cities are willing to all…

> The biggest problem with cycling adoption is “cyclists”. Most like probably number 3 or 4. The "cyclists" are annoying and silly, but on the other hand they aren't literally killing many people.

I was going to say, 40,000 Americans die every year in car accidents. People get into their cars when they're drunk and when they're so tired that they're nodding off at the wheel. People eat tacos, apply makeup, and text their friends while flying along at 45 miles per hour in a 2000-pound death missile.

I find "cyclists" to be as cringey as everyone else does, but cyclists aren't killing 40,000 people a year. They wear silly outfits and are kinda irritating. As far as sins go, those are pretty small in the grand scheme of things. By and large, when a cyclist acts a fool, they're endangering themselves. When a driver acts a fool, they're endangering everyone else on the road.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#255

Post by mips_avatar »

II2II wrote: post #247
mips_avatar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think each near collision with a car radicalizes cyclists a bit. While cycling you build up experiences where cars prioritize speed over your safety. Most “annoying cyclists” I’ve met I feel like are arguing for the right things but they have a lot of bitterness.

It isn't just near collisions. I was once stuck be a car with enough force that it bent my bike frame, ripped the mirror off of their car, and created a crashing sound loud enough for people to hear inside their homes. As far as I can tell, the motorist never even slowed down. The people who came to my aid were nearby residents and pedestrians. How I managed to walk away from that one with little more than (nasty) br…

I want to find out what kind of architecture/design humanizes people. Because everywhere I go in Canamerica people have to drive and I agree with you that it makes people worse.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#256

Post by mips_avatar »

retrohomearcade wrote: post #238
mips_avatar wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where you live can the kids get to anything other than single family housing? Because there are definitely suburbs in the US with low enough traffic to be safe, but they don’t allow important freedoms like biking to schools/libraries/shops

We live on Main street in a single family home in a nice moderately touristy fairly inexpensive mountain town in the north-east. Main street is generally thriving, with the preschool, elementary school, middle-high school, library, and town park/common down said Main street. (The library is one block off.) Mixed together among the core mile and a half or so stretch is a decent collection of retail establishments (inc…

That sounds like a special place that didn’t bulldoze the good stuff for a parking lot in the 60s-80s

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#257

Post by ping_pong »

I recently watched E.T. by Steven Spielberg, and was shocked at how different life was in the 80s.

The mom left Elliott at home alone, sick with a fever, at the age of 9. She also left the daughter who was 3.5 alone while she went to the supermarket. Their only instructions were "don't get into trouble."

Those would both get you in a lot of trouble in 2021, but I'm not sure I understand why. It's even easier these days to contact your parents, since everyone has cell phones. My son has contacted me via Facebook Messenger through his iPad, so it's not that difficult anymore unlike the 80s. You didn't have a way to contact people except by calling, and if the parent wasn't there sitting by the phone there wasn't even answering machines!

I think people just gave more credit to kids back then and nowadays we just keep them as kids much much longer.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#258

Post by dougmwne »

ed_balls wrote: post #227
CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I grow up in a small town in Poland. I was walking on my own to preschool since I was 5 (it was about 400m from the house). If I had kids I'd let them free roam the city.

Seeing elementary kids off on their own in Poland is shocking to me now, even though I was an elementary kid wandering around in the USA 30 years ago. Not sure how the USA took such a bizarre and sad turn.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#259

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

sixothree wrote: post #206
betwixthewires wrote: post #125

I thought this article would be about other things judging from the title, but these are good points. I'm not that old, and I remember "be home before dark" when I was in the single digits. I was going outside, by myself, since about the age of 5. As soon as I could ride a bike that was it. Basically my parents made dinner and paid the rent, the rest was all me in my own life. There was a phase in my childhood where…

Gen X here. I started riding my bike in my neighborhood as soon as my next door neighbor took off the training wheels. It was a small neighborhood with clear boundaries. But as soon as I was 10 and 11 I was leaving to visit friends. I was thinking back recently to one forgotten friend who lived about 1.5 miles away and the pathway I would have taken to his house. It involved crossing two 6-lane divided highways and a…

Sounds awesome, thanks for sharing. Reminded me of this short story by James Joyce called The Encounter [0], (minus the creepy guy). I never did anything like that, and I grew up in the US in the 90s. Typical suburban upbringing, nowhere in particular to go without a car. Were you in the US?

[0] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2814/2814-h/2814-h.htm#chap0...

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#260

Post by mixmastamyk »

rmah wrote: post #204
CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

In NYC, over a million kids of all ages walk, skateboard, bike, kick-scooter, or take the bus and subway to school every day. Little kids as young as 10 take the subway alone to/from school. Well, really they travel in packs, but still. Even in the dangerous Big Apple, the number of serious accidents or criminal incidents while going to/from school is just a handful a year. When I was young and growing up in the burb…

In our neighborhood we have folks screaming in the street, repeat offenders flashing girl scouts, others sleeping on the sidewalk, and/or uber sketchy camper vans and tents parked on the way to school.

I don’t believe in helicopter parenting but this is where we live.

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