Kids need freedom, too • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#171

Post by aeternum » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #42

BitwiseFool wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, most zero-tolerance policies exist because getting sued is simply too expensive for the schools to deal with. Why make a nuanced judgement when you risk getting a lawsuit by trying to be fair?

> Sadly, most zero-tolerance policies exist because getting sued is simply too expensive for the schools to deal with. No, zero-tolerance policies exist because they are low-effort ways of being seen as addressing issues of political concern (and because minimizing discretion of subordinate staff while avoiding creating an incentive to kick sensitive decisions up the chain is itself desirable to decision-makers); exc…

In some cases zero-tolerance is marketing but in others it's not.

Take disciplinary action for example. Very few schools have the same rate of expulsion/suspension for students of all races. How do schools prove to a jury that this is not a result of discrimination or racism? Quite difficult unless they have a zero-tolerance policy.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#172

Post by tomc1985 » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #111

I can‘t find the link anymore, but in the prologue of (I think) a German norm for building playgrounds it said something along these lines that resonated a lot with me: „Kids have the right to hurt themselves and test their boundaries in a safe and limited way“ That‘s just so important for kids I think. US playgrounds all look sad to no end compared to the 15 meter high rope pyramids you see here in a lot of schools.…

We used to have playgrounds like that. My favorite playground as a kid had metal slides, a merry-go-round that we used to have fun throwing kids off of by spinning it at high speed, and this gigantic metal turtle that would get so hot in the summer sun that it would burn you. My elementary school had monkey bars at varying heights... etc etc..

But last time I checked that playground replaced everything with bulky plastic toys and one of those boring wood castle things with plastic slides

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#173

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I don’t think this is an absolute. I grew up in a neighborhood that provided what you describe in Idaho. Both my brothers are raising their kids in an environment like you describe. I live in one in Seattle now. It’s not cheap in a city but it’s not unheard of in the US.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#174

Post by retrohomearcade » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

Lots of kids ride their bikes to my daughters elementary school, where we live in the United States. Safe small towns with functional sidewalks, for kids to ride bikes on as necessary, still happily exist in some places in our nation.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#175

Post by tomc1985 » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

kbelder wrote: post #2

I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant. My argument is that it's statistically very safe, especially in our neighborhood, and that we and her older brothers all did similar things. Her argument is that a girl needs to be more cautious than a boy, and that although she knows it's unlikely anything bad would hap…

Stories like this make me so sad. We've turned ourselves into wusses in just 20 years...

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#176

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

mips_avatar wrote: post #157

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I think cycling is one of those things where it’s important to do it in spite of Canamerica being such a bad place for it, every person cycling normalizes it and pushes indirectly for positive change. Of course it’s also important to directly push for change in city government.

I agree. Cycling needs good stewardship.

The biggest problem with cycling adoption is “cyclists”. My hyperlocal blog has a guy that makes me want to throw my bicycle in the bay just so I’m not associated with him. And I love riding my bike.

Cycling needs a “you meet the nicest people on a Honda” moment.

E-bikes are a great opportunity for Americans to rediscover motorcycles but unfortunately cities are willing to allow motorized vehicles traveling at 20mph on mixed walking/cycling paths.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#177

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #169

CalRobert wrote: post #154

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

I agree wholeheartedly. My life dream is to build a car-free city in the US so I can live there. When I was young and even more naive I hoped I could do this before having kids, so they could grow up with that freedom. Now I’m hoping maybe I can do this by the time I have grandchildren. We’ll see. It would require a lot of capital in the form of patient equity to pull off.

You could just move to a walkable neighborhood in an existing city.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#178

Post by foobarian » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

recursivedoubts wrote: post #25

Social trust has been falling for decades, and the blame lies at the feet of nearly all our major institutions: both political parties as well as the permanent bureocracy, corporations, churches, the media and so on. If we want a healthy society, of which independent children are a part, we should work to restore social trust. "We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”

Maybe lack of churchgoing is contributing to this. Weekly meetups of the whole community under one roof really does wonders for social cohesion.

Of course then you have the church abuse stories...

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#179

Post by indymike » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #119

indymike wrote: post #76

I've got five kids. The more I loosen up and let the kids take risks and learn for mistakes the better. The challenge is when the adults inject a ridiculous level of risk to something that should be a learning experience. For example, allowing police to arrest and charge a child for bad behavior at school (i.e. won't obey the teacher, outbursts - not for actually criminally violent behavior). Another is lifetime acad…

> For example, allowing police to arrest and charge a child for bad behavior at school (i.e. won't obey the teacher, outbursts - not for actually criminally violent behavior). Another is lifetime academic and other records. Just send them to a private school where matters are handled privately.

I have. Not everyone has the money or lives in a voucher state.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#180

Post by xxpor » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #176

mips_avatar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cycling is one of those things where it’s important to do it in spite of Canamerica being such a bad place for it, every person cycling normalizes it and pushes indirectly for positive change. Of course it’s also important to directly push for change in city government.

I agree. Cycling needs good stewardship. The biggest problem with cycling adoption is “cyclists”. My hyperlocal blog has a guy that makes me want to throw my bicycle in the bay just so I’m not associated with him. And I love riding my bike. Cycling needs a “you meet the nicest people on a Honda” moment. E-bikes are a great opportunity for Americans to rediscover motorcycles but unfortunately cities are willing to all…

It was crazy to me in NL that motor scooters (Vespas) could use the bike paths.