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Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

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Re: Kids need freedom, too

#131

Post by lotsofpulp »

mumblemumble wrote: post #126
lotsofpulp wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but an unstated assumption for claiming any procedure is safe that you qualify as a safe candidate for it.

I think, more to the point, this advice is typically being offered by people who aren't even thinking in those terms in the first place. They're just operating from a tacit bias toward interventionism.

Well people who are not ophthalmologists who have not diagnosed your eyes should not be commenting on whether or not you are a good candidate for refractive eye surgery.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#132

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #90
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question, why have kids at that point? They're human beings, not instinct driven pets.

I think the way people view pets is pretty inhumane. It just seems so thoroughly selfish to purchase an animal bred to be provide you joy.

I am in the same camp. There was this girl I met on tinder that I always noticed the irony of her rescuing a dog from somewhere only for her to lock it up in a cage for 8-12 hours a day while she is working or partying. It's not right at all.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#133

Post by rcpt »

Trucks are a lot bigger now and traffic is worse.

I'd love to let my 6 year old wander the neighborhood freely but there's a good chance he wouldn't see 7 simply because he's shorter than the grill of most SUVs (let alone the lifted bro dozers that are so popular now)

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#134

Post by watwut »

react_burger38 wrote: post #77
standardUser wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people who were not white, christian and straight felt a ton of social trust in the era you are harkening back to.

Well actually… Thomas Sowell (who is black) talks about how he felt safe going around on his own in Harlem in the 40s and 50s, and never heard a gunshot. So there actually was a fair amount of social trust / actual safety in black communities even then. With the obvious caveat of course that interracial violence was still a risk. But at least within black communities then, yes there was more social trust.

I dont think it is reasonable to take history of one place as told by literally one person and extrapolate from it whole nation.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#135

Post by korethr »

mumblemumble wrote: post #88
indymike wrote: post #76

I've got five kids. The more I loosen up and let the kids take risks and learn for mistakes the better. The challenge is when the adults inject a ridiculous level of risk to something that should be a learning experience. For example, allowing police to arrest and charge a child for bad behavior at school (i.e. won't obey the teacher, outbursts - not for actually criminally violent behavior). Another is lifetime acad…

I am seeing this, too. Oftentimes, ostensibly in the interest of protecting children from harm, we try to control their behavior with increasingly disproportionate ultimatums, to the point where the authority's response is vastly more harmful than the situation itself. It seems that nowadays we have an extremely interventionist culture, and it leaves us ill-equipped to recognize situations where the best thing to do…

> I am seeing this, too. Oftentimes, ostensibly in the interest of protecting children from harm, we try to control their behavior with increasingly disproportionate ultimatums, to the point where the authority's response is vastly more harmful than the situation itself.

And IMO, perversely, this incentivizes behavior problems. Kids sooner or later (and often sooner in the case of smarter kids) catch onto when adults are making disproportionate ultimatums, or when the reasoning behind a ruling is disconnected from objective reality. What does this teach a kid? Adults are liars, don't know what they're talking about, are undeserving of respect, are not to be obeyed if the consequences of such are bearable, are to be subverted whenever possible, etc.

I mean, there's going to be a degree of disrespect and disobedience when a kid enters adolescence and they start to try to assert their independence as they approach adulthood. But learning the above attitude as a child is going to make adolescent behavior so much worse.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#136

Post by nikolay »

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #90
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question, why have kids at that point? They're human beings, not instinct driven pets.

I think the way people view pets is pretty inhumane. It just seems so thoroughly selfish to purchase an animal bred to be provide you joy.

I have to agree - maybe outside of dogs, all other pets are not happy. For example, how can "fixing" cats be acceptable?! Just because we don't want to allow cats to mate and inconvenience ourselves, we "fix" them and everybody seems okay with it! How is this not animal cruelty by the book?! Cats grow obese and feel miserable. I've had cats, I let them go in and out, they lived fruitful lives and were not forced to come back, yet, they did. During the mating seasons, of course, they were gone for weeks.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#137

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

akomtu wrote: post #102
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question, why have kids at that point? They're human beings, not instinct driven pets.

Because peer pressure and because it gives them a sense of accomplishment. And because, well, kids often happen by accident.

The first two are very sad honestly and it really doesn't help with a child's psyche if they discover the purpose of their birth was for this reasons. It's almost like your purpose is to become a disappointment specifically because your parents had you as a trophy.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#138

Post by nikolay »

akomtu wrote: post #102
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question, why have kids at that point? They're human beings, not instinct driven pets.

Because peer pressure and because it gives them a sense of accomplishment. And because, well, kids often happen by accident.

My son just underwent Sex Ed this year - it was so detailed that I'm sure many adults could learn tons of stuff. Yet, accidents happen, but mostly because we don't educate kids. In the past, I remember my grandparents talking to my sister about these things, and teen pregnancies were much less than now with all the Sex Ed, wide availability of contraceptives, etc.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#139

Post by kart23 »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #7

I went back to my old school for a tour/"try and get Alumni to donate money" event. I was shocked at the changes, especially in the "Elf and Safety" (Health and Safety). Pupils are required to wear body and head padding for Rugby. Junior pupils in primary school cannot do full contact tackles until they are older in high school. I wasn't the most sporty at school, but I appreciated the rough and tumble of rugby, foot…

The amount of concussions that happen in high/middle school is staggering, and has real effects. Theres a reason why 'dumb (contact sport) player' is such a pervasive stereotype. I, for one am really happy that full contact sports are being treated with some more caution.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#140

Post by rossdavidh »

rcpt wrote: post #133

Trucks are a lot bigger now and traffic is worse. I'd love to let my 6 year old wander the neighborhood freely but there's a good chance he wouldn't see 7 simply because he's shorter than the grill of most SUVs (let alone the lifted bro dozers that are so popular now)

Traffic and lack of walkability is definitely an issue (and not only for kids, btw). I am wondering if the idea that children must always be within arm's reach of an adult, has in a way contributed to building cities in a way such that there is no (safe) walkability in many places?
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