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Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

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Re: Kids need freedom, too

#101

Post by hallarempt »

nikolay wrote: post #9
kbelder wrote: post #2

I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant. My argument is that it's statistically very safe, especially in our neighborhood, and that we and her older brothers all did similar things. Her argument is that a girl needs to be more cautious than a boy, and that although she knows it's unlikely anything bad would hap…

Parents today are overprotective (this includes me!) and don't realize that it actually damages their kids. I was 5-years-old when my parents would just drop me off to the kindergarten and then I was on my own pretty much the whole day after kindergarten finishes in the afternoon. I would go to different classes kilometers away, crossing roads, etc. and it was common practice. I don't think kids get injured less toda…

I was a four-year old forty-five years ago. I was walking to my pre-school and back, a couple of blocks and a pretty big and busy street across daily.

The cars weren't a problem. Getting mobbed by primary school kids on my way back and getting beaten up was a problem. A bigger problem was when I told my parents the reason I was getting home later and later was because of the detours I was taking to avoid getting beaten up, and they arranged a meeting with me, the beaters-up and their parents and them -- and in the end, it was clearly my fault, I had never been beaten up, and these were all friendly kids, brought up all wholesome.

The past wasn't a better place, it just was a place where you didn't talk about being abused, no matter what.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#102

Post by akomtu »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #80
akomtu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in essence, the overprotective parents trade their kids' freedom for personal (and egoistical, tbh) peace of mind.

Which begs the question, why have kids at that point? They're human beings, not instinct driven pets.

Because peer pressure and because it gives them a sense of accomplishment. And because, well, kids often happen by accident.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#103

Post by LambdaComplex »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #37
asciimov wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's between that, the zero tolerance policies that many places have, and the unwalkable suburban residential nightmares we have built. I know for several of my minority friends, they won't let their kids go anywhere alone due to run-ins with law enforcement.

Sadly, most zero-tolerance policies exist because getting sued is simply too expensive for the schools to deal with. Why make a nuanced judgement when you risk getting a lawsuit by trying to be fair?

I don't think I agree with you. I can definitely see a parent filing a lawsuit for "You suspended my kid because someone punched him in the face"

(No idea if it would go anywhere in court, but when has that ever stopped someone?)

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#104

Post by jbay808 »

goldenchrome wrote: post #11
kbelder wrote: post #2

I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant. My argument is that it's statistically very safe, especially in our neighborhood, and that we and her older brothers all did similar things. Her argument is that a girl needs to be more cautious than a boy, and that although she knows it's unlikely anything bad would hap…

My mom used to take the bus into the city when she was 8, spend the day wandering around, and come back on her own time. This was in the 70s with no smartphones. If there was an issue, she could use a pay phone. Her own mother sent her out of the house to get some free time for herself. When I was growing up, I did similar things, taking my 5 year old sister on the public bus with me to get to school when I was 10. I…

Sounds like your grandmother would be getting letters from a social worker if she were a parent today.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/07/06/vancouver-bus-dad-ki...

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#105

Post by fungiblecog »

Back in the day local kids would meet up and roam together. Now even if a kid wants to go out and explore they can't find someone to do it with. Kids used to look out for each other and develop valuable skills. Trying to teach "resilience" and "teamwork" in a class is a nonsense. These skills used to develop naturally.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#106

Post by funcDropShadow »

hallarempt wrote: post #101
nikolay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents today are overprotective (this includes me!) and don't realize that it actually damages their kids. I was 5-years-old when my parents would just drop me off to the kindergarten and then I was on my own pretty much the whole day after kindergarten finishes in the afternoon. I would go to different classes kilometers away, crossing roads, etc. and it was common practice. I don't think kids get injured less toda…

I was a four-year old forty-five years ago. I was walking to my pre-school and back, a couple of blocks and a pretty big and busy street across daily. The cars weren't a problem. Getting mobbed by primary school kids on my way back and getting beaten up was a problem. A bigger problem was when I told my parents the reason I was getting home later and later was because of the detours I was taking to avoid getting beat…

> The past wasn't a better place, it just was a place where you didn't talk about being abused, no matter what.

I guess that is true, but an interesting question is: Did the past prepare kids better to become responsible and capable adults?

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#107

Post by closeparen »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #20
version_five wrote: post #3

Large businesses have the biggest lobbying groups so their agendas get the most attention, though editorial campaigns, laws, etc. There are a few groups concerned with personal freedom, and so personal freedom is not forgotten, but is deprioritized over what business wants. Children have almost no advocates I would argue. The only people lobbying "on their behalf" are trying to gain power in some way, using fear, etc…

Why don't large businesses want children walking to the park by themselves? What's the large business interest here?

A number of malls and small retail stores have policies banning or severely limiting unaccompanied minors. The idea is minors are disproportionately likely to cause disturbances. Even if that risk is very small, it’s not really worth accepting any amount of risk there, because minors don’t really spend money either.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#108

Post by aantix »

kbelder wrote: post #2

I'm having this issue a bit with my wife. I want my 9-yr old daughter to go to the playground a couple blocks away on her own; my wife is reluctant. My argument is that it's statistically very safe, especially in our neighborhood, and that we and her older brothers all did similar things. Her argument is that a girl needs to be more cautious than a boy, and that although she knows it's unlikely anything bad would hap…

Get her a Gizmo pal watch.

You can call her. The watch auto-answers, so she can't ignore it. She can call 5 pre-programmed numbers.

And you can see her location in an app.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#109

Post by lotsofpulp »

mumblemumble wrote: post #88
indymike wrote: post #76

I've got five kids. The more I loosen up and let the kids take risks and learn for mistakes the better. The challenge is when the adults inject a ridiculous level of risk to something that should be a learning experience. For example, allowing police to arrest and charge a child for bad behavior at school (i.e. won't obey the teacher, outbursts - not for actually criminally violent behavior). Another is lifetime acad…

I am seeing this, too. Oftentimes, ostensibly in the interest of protecting children from harm, we try to control their behavior with increasingly disproportionate ultimatums, to the point where the authority's response is vastly more harmful than the situation itself. It seems that nowadays we have an extremely interventionist culture, and it leaves us ill-equipped to recognize situations where the best thing to do…

> My take is myopia can be effectively treated with an inexpensive and non-invasive device

Like what?

>while LASIK comes with significant risk of causing different kinds of visual impairments that cannot be treated

The numbers behind LASIK (and PRK) are pretty solid such that one can make an objective claim that it is a low risk endeavor unless you have some specific conditions.

Here is one study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7727822/

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#110

Post by mumblemumble »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #109
mumblemumble wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am seeing this, too. Oftentimes, ostensibly in the interest of protecting children from harm, we try to control their behavior with increasingly disproportionate ultimatums, to the point where the authority's response is vastly more harmful than the situation itself. It seems that nowadays we have an extremely interventionist culture, and it leaves us ill-equipped to recognize situations where the best thing to do…

> My take is myopia can be effectively treated with an inexpensive and non-invasive device Like what? >while LASIK comes with significant risk of causing different kinds of visual impairments that cannot be treated The numbers behind LASIK (and PRK) are pretty solid such that one can make an objective claim that it is a low risk endeavor unless you have some specific conditions. Here is one study: https://www.ncbi.nl…

It completely depends on the severity of your myopia. If it's mild, yeah, it's pretty safe. If it's moderate or severe, then things start looking a lot more dicey.

The overall numbers give a biased perspective. With the way the risk/benefit ratio varies, people with milder cases are a lot more likely to get it. This is in addition to there being more of them in the first place.

The inexpensive and non-invasive device is corrective eyewear.

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