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Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

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Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#401

Post by Server6 »

colanderman wrote: post #140
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #56

Every morning, I get up at 5, and go for a two-mile walk. Often, my walk coincides with the route of the garbage collection truck. Man, those dudes work hard . It makes my shoulders ache, just watching them. They are fast, energetic, efficient, and precise. Around here, they are generally Latinos, and they have quite high-paying jobs, compared to a lot of their peers. It's a dirty, dangerous job, and the benefits are…

This is the first I've heard of tipping trash collectors. Apparently it's a thing? How, logistically, does one even accomplish that?

For sure. I'd tip them if I saw them.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#402

Post by bitexploder »

josefx wrote: post #355
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that social mobility implies being able to climb the ladder from destitute to poor, poor to modestly wealthy, etc. and not referring to jumping to the 1% from destitution.

People like stories of extremely poor ending up rich and it doesn't help that the rich like to abuse these kinds of stories to better their optics. What looks better on a millionaire: * The poor guy that invested every cent he had and kept slaving away for years every day at the brink of certain failure. * The rich kid that got several hundred thousand from his parents for his first company and knew exactly that fail…

Except, some of us really did grow up in trailer parks and make it. Mostly through hard work. Luck too, but it isn't a completely false narrative. I am sure there are a lot of biases at play and that is not the statistically average way someone becomes a millionaire, yet it does actually happen.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#403

Post by someguy321 »

I kind of figure that a lot of people are trapped in a "local optimum." Their life is fairly comfortable, but not extremely satisfying, and any direction they push doesn't yield results in an easily accessible way.

I kind of figure that this is a result of the standard of living in developed countries having a high baseline level of easy comfort, and the fact that life is getting more and more complicated all the time. It's hard to justify striving really really hard toward a complex goal (that didn't even exist in its current incarnation 20 years ago) when the immediate rewards aren't satiating or apparent.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#404

Post by Aunche »

hawk_ wrote: post #32
cousin_it wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is whenever quick upward mobility has been possible anywhere for a large number of people, it has been built upon slavery, colonialism and/or cheap imported labour. Which of these was responsible for China's rise from poverty?

It wasn't imported in case of China only technically. The rural to urban route was "imported" labor that mostly made city dwellers rich.

Ok. But what about the formerly rural workers? Their standard of living has dramatically risen as well.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#405

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

esens wrote: post #231
CraneWorm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post-scarcity cannot come fast enough; the (external) need to work hard should just die in a fire.

It never actually seems to come though. I wouldn't count on it. I believe that getting something for nothing is usually not sustainable. Just because you serve no purpose to those giving the things away for free. Something will give (some type of resource constraint will arise, even if it is just competitive/alternatives) and it will fail if you are not providing value.

If you think in terms of money, then yes. But people can certainly provide value that cannot be measured in money and profits. And for me that's the whole idea of have a post scarcity society where you don't have to work.. I'm fairly sure that most people would actually start providing value on their own and for the good of society if they weren't forced to think about money.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#406

Post by bitexploder »

chasebank wrote: post #335
jfrunyon wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the millionaire's kid deserve a better shot at success than the plumber's kid?

He doesn't. Nobody deserves anything.

Depends on the word games being played. We don't deserve anything, but being born as thinking humans we have certain inalienable rights. They aren't "deserved", they just are.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#407

Post by ed_balls »

wishigotitfree wrote: post #25

Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule. Most will not beat the odds since if they did, those wouldn't BE the odds. A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success sto…

To play devil's advocate: Rich kids are doing cocaine in Ferraris. It's the poor kids that make stuff happen.

> Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule.

That could be true for USA where the mobility reached an equilibrium.

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#409

Post by leto_ii »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #217
paulluuk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really know the stats, but I'm curious if this is true. Yes, GDP has been going up for a long time in many countries, and so the "average wealth" of each generation is going up. However, is the same true for purchasing power? Sometimes you hear about these mythical stories of janitors who could afford to actually buy a house, despite having two children and their partners being stay-at-home moms. And yet toda…

A lot of things that are social “musts” today were “wants” 30 years ago. Smart phones, unlimited data, eating out 3-4 times a week, Uber Eats delivery. None of this is necessary in order to survive, but not indulging is seen as odd or socially awkward.

> eating out 3-4 times a week

What percentage of the western population eats out 3-4 times a week? I'd bet it isn't more than 10-20%, depending on the country.

> Uber Eats delivery

Not sure the people who do the delivering can afford having food delivered in turn (at least not 3-4 times a week).

Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life

#410

Post by paulluuk »

frockington1 wrote: post #123
paulluuk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really know the stats, but I'm curious if this is true. Yes, GDP has been going up for a long time in many countries, and so the "average wealth" of each generation is going up. However, is the same true for purchasing power? Sometimes you hear about these mythical stories of janitors who could afford to actually buy a house, despite having two children and their partners being stay-at-home moms. And yet toda…

30 year olds with masters degrees who are still living with their parents? There must be additional information because this is just crazy. In 'flyover' country you don't see this. I'm assuming this is California or NY?

In this case I was referencing my own country, the Netherlands. We're heavily urbanized and no location in the country is ever more than 4 hours driving away.
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