Empirical data shows this as well, so I guess this just means there’s a gap in propaganda convincing workers to accept less and less each year while productivity increases. I’m sure the media will correct this misperception quickly.
Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
241–250 of 715 posts
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#242Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule. Most will not beat the odds since if they did, those wouldn't BE the odds. A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success sto…
Do you honestly believe this? What would you tell this to someone who wasn't born into wealth or opportunity? You're pretty much screwed, don't bother? What impact do you think teaching nihilism has on children? I don't believe its true, but even if it were, it's not a useful model for life.
It's not a useful model for life, but it's a useful perception to convey to your constituents.
"You're being held back by a system that works against you! Send me to Washington, and I'll fix it!"
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#243People who believe in hard work are just creating unemployment. It's a rat race.
> "Competition has been shown to be useful up to a certain point and no further, but cooperation, which is the thing we must strive for today, begins where competition leaves off." — Speech at the People's Forum in Troy, New York (March 3, 1912)
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Competition matters, but I really have the feeling that we believe competition is a form of cooperation, but it's clearly not. How often do we blame other for their lack of motivation, of drive, of life goals, of success? Social darwinism is a belief that covertly dominates.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would think "starting conditions" includes the parents one has. Also what you say is not quite logic - you're saying that valuing education means people succeed. So why didn't the parents succeed then? I think that's the question, and usually that's because they were born in the wrong place, at the wrong time or under the wrong regime. When their kids are born, it's a different perhaps better time, so better starti…
> you're saying that valuing education means people succeed. So why didn't the parents succeed then? Possibly because the parents parents didn't value education and by the time the parents came to value education they were already stuck in the cycle of poverty.
Agreed, your parents mistakes are often a very strong source of motivation to act differently.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really know the stats, but I'm curious if this is true. Yes, GDP has been going up for a long time in many countries, and so the "average wealth" of each generation is going up. However, is the same true for purchasing power? Sometimes you hear about these mythical stories of janitors who could afford to actually buy a house, despite having two children and their partners being stay-at-home moms. And yet toda…
The Wall Street Journal has a great infographic here comparing how many hours of worth it would take to pay median rent today versus in 1968: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-does-the-federal-minim... Spoiler: it’s not pretty.
worthless graph because it compares minimum wage to the price of goods, not median wage. The minimum wage today is $7.25 but essentially no one makes that. Target, Chipotle, Amazon, and other start out at $15, others aren't far behind.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#246As trite as it sounds, "Success = Hard Work + Opportunity" is still the default equation that makes the most sense to me. And while people from all strata of life work very hard, opportunities are obviously and incredibly unequally distributed (and perhaps becoming more so?). If you were born middle-class in US/Canada 20 - 40 years ago, your access to opportunities to improve your station were/are immense. Layer on y…
One thing all tech employees can appreciate is that some people are far more efficient than others. In some cases, by orders of magnitude.
You can sort of blend that with "opportunity" if you think it's entirely nurture/education based, but I went to school with a lot of people who had an identical home environment and education as me, and are easily 10x better at coding.
There's very little research into how brains function, but I personally believe that human brains are all physically different, in terms of capability, and that everyone has a unique blend of innate talents.
So I think the equation is...
Success (in x field) = Hard Work + Talent (in x field) + Opportunity (in x field)
...which means that a major key to success is selecting the field that you have a talent for.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Starting conditions help tremendously, and I'm not doubting that in the least. One other thing which helps, significantly, is how much the parents value education. Most of the people I know who grew up very poor but now have money had parents that valued education, and pushed their kids to learn. They didn't have shelves of books at home, but they did visit the library weekly. It has to be extremely difficult to focu…
I would think "starting conditions" includes the parents one has. Also what you say is not quite logic - you're saying that valuing education means people succeed. So why didn't the parents succeed then? I think that's the question, and usually that's because they were born in the wrong place, at the wrong time or under the wrong regime. When their kids are born, it's a different perhaps better time, so better starti…
> I would think "starting conditions" includes the parents one has. Also what you say is not quite logic - you're saying that valuing education means people succeed. So why didn't the parents succeed then?
Some people value education independently of their parents.
You go on to make a point about a head start being beneficial, and I'm absolutely not disagreeing with that.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#248Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule. Most will not beat the odds since if they did, those wouldn't BE the odds. A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success sto…
Do you honestly believe this? What would you tell this to someone who wasn't born into wealth or opportunity? You're pretty much screwed, don't bother? What impact do you think teaching nihilism has on children? I don't believe its true, but even if it were, it's not a useful model for life.
How paternalistic. Now can we step into reality.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#249Starting conditions (where one was born, levels of wealth and opportunity there, one's parents' education and jobs) are shockingly predictive about an individual's future. Hard work leading to social mobility has always been the exception, not the rule. Most will not beat the odds since if they did, those wouldn't BE the odds. A lot of us are just so deluded by survivorship bias borne of listening only to success sto…
Starting conditions are also heavily correlated with the qualities that lead to them, which are both culturally and genetically hereditable.
There is also a chilling effect where even the people who have the qualities needed to succeed, judge their own chances by the median of their peers, and thus don’t bother in the first place. This is one of the reasons I advocate for big-population standardized tests just a self-assessment tool for students. It won’t help most underprivileged people, but it will at least help the best of them, and get a positive feedback loop going.
I myself probably would not have worked hard enough if I did not consistently place high in these tests, as I was from a rather small city, and born with an under-confidence bias.
Re: Survey shows people no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life
#250Every morning, I get up at 5, and go for a two-mile walk. Often, my walk coincides with the route of the garbage collection truck. Man, those dudes work hard . It makes my shoulders ache, just watching them. They are fast, energetic, efficient, and precise. Around here, they are generally Latinos, and they have quite high-paying jobs, compared to a lot of their peers. It's a dirty, dangerous job, and the benefits are…
It is hard. But working physically at a reasonable pace, without having a boss that tries to break your back is also very satisfying. You’re tired in a healthy, calming way when you’re done. The conditions really matter though.
One of the most important lessons I learned is to never rush. You have to push yourself but if you rush, then mistakes and injuries happen, and you‘ll be mentally exhausted and stressed.
What I hope is that these guys you see are going at their own pace, which still can be quite fast.