Earlier quoted context omitted.
The arc of human history, especially in the west, has bent toward equality. I think some hierarchy is necessary, but I like how one of the previous comment distinguishes between organizational hierarchies and social (status) hierarchies. I’m not sure the latter are useful at all.
How are organizational hierarchies and social (status) hierarchies not the same thing? I'm not sure I'm following
Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
411–420 of 434 posts
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it bother you if someone doesn't socialize at work? I don't understand why it would.
If someone can make it 20 years with zero hallway conversations I assume they aren’t very pleasant to be around. I mean, if I asked OP if they had a nice weekend, what would happen? Would I be ignored? Just a grunt in reply? Or a “fine” and that’s it?
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel your point, but obviously not every work environment is the same.
The phrase "people like ice cream" does not mean "all people like ice cream".
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are very much correct - for all the people lambasting working in an office, I hope they realize it will mean they will be competing against a much larger swath of humanity. Also, I'm glad you highlighted "Mexico or Brazil". Unlike decades past where lots of outsourcing was done to India, I think many people now realize the inherent inefficiencies when teams are 12 time zones apart. The Americas don't have…
It's not really as simple as larger pool -> easy replacements though. You might find a great remote candidate with great technical skills; but there's an 8-hour timezone difference, they speak poor English (or whatever language your team mostly speaks), don't understand the market that you're working with etc. Granted that there's not much of a difference when it comes to Canadians VS USA-ians, but that's where labor…
These laws tend to exist when the people you hire want to live in the country you are operating from. I'm a non-EU citizen working in the EU, and am definitely worried that my residence country will kick me out, since WFH means I could very well do my job from my home country (and I'm now grateful that at least I'm paying a lot of tax to my country of residence).
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
I changed jobs recently, though not because the old one was going to make me come back to the office. I've never seen such a frothy job market, I had multiple offers for fully remote roles with a 20%+ raise. I'm a data engineer in the Midwest with just under a decade of experience. All these companies seem to be hiring plenty of other roles and levels of seniority as well.
You motivated me enough to finally update my Linked-In and mark it open for work. I'm also in the Midwest (near Chicago). If you don't mind me asking, to what extent did you put yourself out there? For the longest time I just pursue whatever recruiters reach out to me, but I think I should probably do more active searching this time around.
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#416Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#417Can’t imagine not having at least partial WFH after this pandemic. If my office doesn’t let me WFH, I will also be leaving. A good portion of my team is similarly minded, but management is insistent on disallowing WFH. I can’t wait to see their faces when the company bleeds massive swaths of engineering talent. It’s about damn time that companies realized that they ought to treat their employees like the adults that…
I suspect that most of the drive to get back to the office is coming from the middle manager. You just can’t do ass sniffing at home at it’s essential for their carrier advancement in the megacorps.
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#418IMO these people are shooting themselves in the foot long term. If companies learn to WFH full time these people will eventually be replaced with cheaper labour from oversees.
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you might be confusing audio and video surveillance with computer system logging. We can log anything we want it’s in their employee contract that they have no expectation of privacy on company computer systems and it should not be used for any personal business, which again WFH is great because clearly they have their own personal computer they use to access remote access and all our logging is on the server…
Regardless of whatever wording you have included in your employment agreements, your statements on the matter indicate that you are surveilling your employees without their knowledge. Your public comment to that effect could actually be used in court to throw out whatever wording you have in your agreement, as your statement nullifies the assumption that your employees have read the agreement (you don't believe any o…
Your feedback has encouraged me to expand the system further as it’s clear I’m on to something big. I’m now taking full screenshots every minute. I had been concerned about disk space growth but with the extra determination you’ve given me to uncover the lazy employees, I discovered a useful tool that compresses similar images. This was important as obviously the slackers even when active with the mouse barely do anything anyway, we have a 15 min inactivity auto disconnection, and it’s occurred to them if they never are logged on they obviously aren’t working, so probably while they watch TV or play video games, they seem to periodically move the mouse to avoid the disconnect. I’ve also been able to turn it into a movie so I can watch the employees work and can already directly confirm this is what is happening, zero WFH while being paid for it.
I do feel I should address your confusion on the legality of this system as it might provide you some relief. The system is 100% legal in the US and EU and under GPDR, you have a flawed mental model of what is happening. We don’t provide them a WFH device, they BYOD any personal computer of their own. We don’t even provide a custom client software, we use off the shelf standard clients, it even works inside a browser window if they chose not to use a better performance local client. We never alter their machine and have no access to their machine. All logging and monitoring is done server side and has nothing to do with their privacy. They do not enter private information into our system, they are explicitly prohibited from doing so, they don’t log into an bank or private email or facebook, nothing, they have no private communication or messages on the corporate system. In fact the system’s access to the public internet is severely restricted and even if it wasn’t they have no purpose in doing so, it would even be a violation of their employee agreement because they would be using company resources and time and that’s cause for termination.
WFH is a much cleaner setup, employees used to complain they couldn’t access Facebook or other wasteful social media sites, of course most just used their phone, but with this setup it’s very clear what is work and what isn’t.
Bottom line all of this is 100% legal and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s pretty pathetic that the idea managers might have ways to watch if you work or not makes you so hot under the collar. I’m sure you are probably one of the slackers that thinks they are fooling the boss by trying to logon each morning and wiggle the mouse while you spank yourself or watch netflix all day.
By the way, we also count the lines of code you write, review your tasks completed, and yep that all confirms you are a loser slacker that we have no trouble terminating. We don’t have to tell you any of that either, we can measure anything we like if we want to, keys pressed, mouse moved, code committed, software bugs caused, bugs patched, hours worked, whatever we like, and no we don’t need any consent for any of those metrics and we don’t need to disclose them either. We pay you to work and your work is our work product, all of it.
Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
You motivated me enough to finally update my Linked-In and mark it open for work. I'm also in the Midwest (near Chicago). If you don't mind me asking, to what extent did you put yourself out there? For the longest time I just pursue whatever recruiters reach out to me, but I think I should probably do more active searching this time around.
For anyone curious, since I turned that on 7 hours ago I've gotten 7 recruiters that have messaged me, and most look like pretty decent fits for my experience, better than the random messages I usually get (and I usually only get a few that reach out each month). Guess I should have done this sooner.
I had a similar experience to you on LI. I wasn't particular desperate for a new gig, so I aimed high on salary range. At first I was told I was too expensive, but a couple weeks in I had plenty of options at or above my range, so shoot for the moon!