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Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

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Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#161

Post by kwyjobojoe »

rocqua wrote: post #115
strgrd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hybrid model is such a joke. For most, working in the office might as well be the 21st century business suit: an antiquated formality designed to demonstrate your obedience to authority. The hybrid model is a suit on a t-shirt. And forcing employees to be in the office X days a week means productivity on those WFH days will be nonexistent, especially if they butt against a weekend. But of course while the WFH lif…

The hybrid model makes sense, because some people (like me) enjoy being at the office with colleagues. I don't want a situation where I am forced to always be in the office. But I also don't want to have colleagues I never see. That doesn't mean "mandate exactly X days at work". But it does mean "be at the office sometimes".

Your only justification for forcing people to come to your office is to suit your needs. If a role can be done successfully 100%, people like you need to think about others before you start supporting upsetting someone else's lifestyle to make yourself happier.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#162

Post by rhacker »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #150
Raed667 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm struggling with the idea of hybrid WFH. It still means that I need to live near the office. Instead of a cheaper, quieter place far away from cities. Besides making middle-management happy, I'm not sure what is the benefit of having one required day per week at the office.

I find in person meetings more effective. I’d rather meet once a week or 2 and get all the big meetings done then go away to code, than have Zoom meetings every single day. I predict that in all the full time WFH companies, some small group will start having in person meets once every X. Or some other startup will innovate past an incumbent by having a hybrid model. Then hybrid will be the next “new” thing.

Zoom is the new power point. Has anyone noticed we've replaced the concept of "the thing that is annoying about meetings is power point" to just blaming zoom.

I don't even think we have a point to make, it's just like a thing we say... like oh god another power point meeting, oh god another zoom call.

I think the real thing is "oh god another thing I have to do I don't want to" - but we're afraid to say it.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#163

Post by davedrouin »

dsyrk wrote: post #131
detaro wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are parts of the world where that is illegal, yes.

Really where? Certainly not in the United States and I don’t see any reason it should be illegal. Your an employee not a citizen.

This is illegal without employee consent in the EU and in most other civilized countries around the world.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#164

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

marcinzm wrote: post #39
brabel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't. Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.

Because in most companies, you're having lunch with VPs and CEOs regularly? I've only worked at one company where I regularly saw anybody at the VP level and up on a regular basis. Unless you're working at a small company, this example just doesn't have any basis in reality.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#165

Post by ushkarev »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #153
ushkarev wrote: post #143

Personally speaking, I cannot wait to have the opportunity to be back to the office 100% of the time. I just cannot cope with the lack of proper division between my home life and work life. Some of my colleagues agree, but I obviously recognise the fact that most do not. Even before the pandemic our organisation had hybrid working conditions and I’m pretty sure that’s what they’re aiming for again in the near future;…

“ lack of proper division between my home life and work life.” This tells me you’re doing WFH wrong or don’t have enough discipline for it. That’s okay, wfh is not for everyone, but don’t blame this on anyone but yourself. There are tons of ways to have that proper separation, including but not limited to, replacing the transitional commute with a walk to switch contexts. You can find a lot of tips and techniques on…

I don’t blame anybody at all. You may well be right, there are likely many ways to make working from home more comfortable for me. Although I’ll add that I only have one room so my “office” is literally my bedroom.

However, why must I make it work if/when I get other options? I liked working in an office with other people.

I definitely don’t mean to generalise - I know loads of people who don’t feel the same way as I do. I was just sharing my personal experience.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#166

Post by vmception »

dls2016 wrote: post #146

My last job was remote even before pandemic, but the pandemic was used as an excuse to fire people... who a few months later turned into off shore replacements. Thankfully I received an SBIR which will cover half my salary for a few months. But it’s also a good time to quit due to child and health care tax credits!

"Revenue crunch used as excuse to lower overhead costs"

man, employees are never going to get it and they resist unionizing? see you in 100 years this is hilarious

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#167

Post by [deleted] »

luffapi wrote: post #123
marcinzm wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always social drama because humans are social creatures and not machines. Hiding your head in the sand doesn't make it go away but merely means you're at it's whims with no influence on it. The difference is that if you're viewed as a friend other people first give you the benefit of the doubt since they assume you had good intentions. If you're not they don't and then things can escalate very quickly and not…

It sounds like you’ve worked under terrible management if you’re having these problems. On a properly run team people don’t squabble and politic. It is possible to work in a healthy manner, remote or otherwise. The drama you avoid when remote stems from not being forced to co-locate with individuals for a large swath of your waking hours. That is a breeding ground for unhealthy behavior.

[deleted]

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#168

Post by loloquwowndueo »

ushkarev wrote: post #165
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ lack of proper division between my home life and work life.” This tells me you’re doing WFH wrong or don’t have enough discipline for it. That’s okay, wfh is not for everyone, but don’t blame this on anyone but yourself. There are tons of ways to have that proper separation, including but not limited to, replacing the transitional commute with a walk to switch contexts. You can find a lot of tips and techniques on…

I don’t blame anybody at all. You may well be right, there are likely many ways to make working from home more comfortable for me. Although I’ll add that I only have one room so my “office” is literally my bedroom. However, why must I make it work if/when I get other options? I liked working in an office with other people. I definitely don’t mean to generalise - I know loads of people who don’t feel the same way as I…

Oh if you have other options and you prefer them, go for it :)

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#169

Post by marcinzm »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #164
marcinzm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't. Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.

Because in most companies, you're having lunch with VPs and CEOs regularly? I've only worked at one company where I regularly saw anybody at the VP level and up on a regular basis. Unless you're working at a small company, this example just doesn't have any basis in reality.

I was poking fun at them saying no one will be in the office by pointing out that if you're literally the only non-manager in the office then you've got some advantages.

Re: Forget going back to the office – people are just quitting instead

#170

Post by forz877 »

luffapi wrote: post #93
marcinzm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said your co-workers must or should be your only social connections. Simply that it helps if they are A social connection. You're still going to deal with your co-workers eight hours a day. Dealing with people who think of you as a friend is a lot easier than with people who don't.

I want to deal with my co-workers as professionals, definitely not as friends. They are not my friends, I’m paid to work with them. Companies are more productive when you remove social drama, not less.

This is utopia. Human beings are competitive and social, and to achieve your goals you need more than professionals sometimes- you need friends.
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