Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#611

Post by FredPret » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

aikinai wrote: post #466

thow-01187 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho, what was happening in the Silicon Valley economy looks much more like displacement of value rather than creation of value (1). Google/Facebook have displaced other ad formats, redirecting money to themselves. AWS have displaced IT technicians in other corporations, redirecting money to themselves. Apple is selling overpriced commodity hardware, redirecting money to themselves. Uber is displacing taxis, redirect…

> Apple is selling overpriced commodity hardware This hasn’t been true since the 90s. And the rest of your examples are similarly ignorant of the incredible pace of innovation coming from a lot of these companies. Google ads might not be changing the world, but their peripheral technology certainly is. AWS and Amazon’s core business as well.

Just one correction; targeted ads have enabled the existence of many small businesses.

Want to launch a board game aimed at left-handed nerds in a specific city? Before, you’d need a big media campaign that would also reach many right-handed non-nerds, wasting a lot of money. Now, you just need a few thousand $’s worth of targeted ads.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#612

Post by bennybob » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

dukeyukey wrote: post #518

reader_mode wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this part - 2 weeks PTO - OK - tech companies are flexible in looking for good talent - if you're getting paid 2x you can work 6months a year to break even. Now taking off 6 months unpaid isn't realistic - but a month off isn't that unusual. And the healthcare part what are you even talking about - what employer doesn't provide healthcare in tech ? You'll likely have a good plan an better coverage than NH…

> You'll likely have a good plan an better coverage than NHS What would an NHS-style plan cost in the US? Like, I'd be happy in a shared hospital room and having lower priority for non-emergency care, but in exchange having 0 co-pay, 0 deductible, 100% coverage for everything (including long-term care), 0 ambulance fees and a maximum prescription cost per item of $12/month?

Some of the NHS health care is shocking. I watched my dad dying on a ward with utterly shit jobs worth nursing staff. After enough of that he ended up in ICU with great care and died. Northern Ireland's NHS is an utter shambles. 3 week wait to see a GP. Surgery wait times of years. It's a crisis. I've got private health cover. Though don't be critical of the NHS, you ll be branded a heretic.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#613

Post by varjag » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #605

varjag wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sebastian Gorka is an immigrant, from the EU no less. So are the many notorious alt-right figures that are baked in your consciousness as ur-American.

Ok yeah the Nazis building your moon rockets were also immigrants, true ;-)

I'm an Eastern European immigrant in Norway, stuff your attitude where it makes you warm.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#614

Post by refurb » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #288

refurb wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. It’s the mentality, not the vacation. My job in the US gives 5 weeks vacation per year. You are expected to disconnect and it’s embarrassing if email/text while on leave - people think you’re nuts. But the work attitude is usually “lets do something cool”, “lets solve that problem”, “why can’t we be the best?” versus a work mentality of “i don’t think that will work” and “we’ll never get support for that id…

I think it's worth understanding that there are two categories of employee. The first is a tiny sliver of people who make good money doing interesting, possibly even fulfiling work. Like say running their own business, or building great new tech. The larger slice though don't have this. They work long ours doing meaningless boring tasks for long hours and low wages. Think amazon warehouse, and any service level job.…

We’re clearly talking about technological work here.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#615

Post by j_wtf_all_taken » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

oytis wrote: post #538

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get your point. I mean, I agree with the danger of a far-right president in France in '22, and I'd like to see another party in power in Germany, but what does that have to do with the current quality of life? Right now, the social security system works, does it not? Just from the perspective of a citizen ... I have health and unemployment insurance, good public transportation, I won't get shot in public, the…

The first part was about quality of democracy. Europe has problems with the far-right too, and American democracy at least makes it possible that it's being interchangeably ruled by different parties with pretty distinct policies. The second part is, well, like asking why should we sit in the lockdown and wear masks when not a lot of people are dying of covid right now. It's not something that may happen, it will hap…

So you're saying parties in Europe are interchangeable?

We know what happens with Covid due to science, modeling and stuff. But a virus spread is oretty easy to model compared to a society and its economy. So until now it worked really nice, haven't seen a lot of studies saying it won't in the future, rather the opposite.

Edit: or do you mean because we're getting older and hace fewer kids? Yeah that'll be a challange. Bit eventually every country will experience that, so lets figure out how to deal with this! And yeah, also let immigrants in ;)

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#616

Post by HatchedLake721 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

sgt wrote: post #496

pembrook wrote: post #476

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The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Europe’s entire social safety net is at risk if their private sector can’t generate enough wealth to support it. Given their declining populations and anti-immigrant tendencies inflamed by the refugee crisis in many of its member states, it doesn’t look good for the EU’s future.

It's interesting you should note anti-immigration tendencies. I believe those tendencies are fueled by ridiculously liberal immigration laws that essentially allows far too many asylum seekers into Europe. That's why you now see ghettos and zones where the police don't go in France, Sweden and even UK. I am not against immigration but I think Europe should be seriously reconsidering non-western immigration as it will…

> That's why you now see ghettos and zones where the police don't go in France, Sweden and even UK.

Please name me one place in the UK where police don’t go.

This is exactly the same 5 year old BS that we heard from Trump times.

Even the USA ambassador was embarrassed and grilled by the journalist in the Netherlands to provide one example of “politicians being burned” and “no-go zones” in the Netherlands.

https://youtu.be/lOEI6hYZe6Y

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#617

Post by pasabagi » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #591

pasabagi wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s the Economist; if you need a source, they’re available on Google Scholar. For the record, I don't know what Economist you've been reading, but the Economist I know is about as factually accurate as most media publications (that is, not particularly). Not to mention, even if this was an article written by an academic expert in the field, a source would be basic table stakes.

> the Economist I know is about as factually accurate as most media publications We agree. I meant that an article appearing in the Economist doesn't need to source every detail, particularly when it's a widely-accessible and well-known statistic.

Thanks for the clarification.

That said, as an aside, I find it a bit worrying sometimes that the basic facts of our public conversation are provided without sources, or even in many cases, particular care or diligence.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#618

Post by Applejinx » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:15 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #434

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but doesn't Apple rely on European companies like Bosch for sensors and stuff? So, no iPhone without those crappy uninnovative European companies. Oh and Linux and the WWW were developed in Europe, if I remember correctly?

Yes, but how is Europe monetizing those things? Just because something was invented here is irrelevant if people can't use it to pay rent or create new well paying jobs.

Creating jobs isn't monetizing. It's the opposite, it's SPENDING money. People as a rule paying rent more easily and having better paying jobs is what the EU looks like. The scale factor of US mega-companies is about heightened efficiencies of scale making the companies not HAVE to 'create as many jobs' as a hundred smaller companies would have to create. You've got it all backwards as far as how the giant US companies are competing.

You DO NOT compete by paying more to the workers and having more workers than the competition. EU is doing the things you say are good, and that's why they are not competing as well with the giant US firms.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#619

Post by alchemism » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:16 AM UTC

satellite2 wrote: post #131

Barrin92 wrote: post #99

As usual the article is almost exclusively concerned with market capitalization as an indicator of economic success. Countries like Germany are dominated by small and middle-class, family owned business. 'Big corporate' is indeed more successful in the US or China but it's just one model to manage an economy and I don't think it's that great. One of the most important points is also buried at the end of the article >…

Exactly, all else being equal this article actually makes me want to invest in a European total market index. It's basically the only continent currently which have an acceptable price earning ratio. Even if it's true that American whales had 10 years of exeptional growth, they are priced as if they will be able to have the same growth for the next 10 years.

I’ve made 50% returns (!) in 2 years on the Greek market index ETF…

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#620

Post by dukeyukey » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #505

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies > This is literally the article’s point. Europe and the U.S. grew similarly. The U.S. and China produced more large companies. (The Continent’s larger companies also being older than the other two’s.) So Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally, while in the US and China you got a massive concentration…

>So Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally False. Europe did a better job at distributing income due to high taxes but not wealth. Most Europeans are rich due to accumulation of wealth (specifically old business and real estate) inherited across generations. Due to that, statistically, Europe does worse than the US wealth inequality as wealth has pooled to the people whose families have been here…

> Due to that, statistically, Europe does worse than the US wealth inequality

I had a quick look at Wikipedia's wealth Gini figures and this isn't the case. Places like the Netherlands and Sweden score atrociously, but the three big European economies (France, Germany, and the UK) all have less wealth inequality than the US (significantly so for the first two), as do a whole host of other European countries.