150 million lines of code in a Ford F-150? How is that even possible? A Volvo with 100 million lines including 3 million functions. This sounds like generated code to me. I can’t believe this is handwritten or even necessary.
Software is eating the car
361–370 of 549 posts
Re: Software is eating the car
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes, airbags and crumple zones do improve safety, but even those are not without negative consequences, like bigger, heavier vehicles (which is more dangerous to others) and higher sense of psychological safety leading to being less considerate, less attentive, and more reckless. that's not to argue that those tradeoffs aren't net positive, but that they're still tradeoffs to be considered, rather than short-circuiti…
I'd argue feeling safe when I drive is net positive for actual safety. Stressed drivers going to make way more errors.
if you’re prone to being overwhelmed by stress while driving a machine that can potentially kill you, that’s a sign to get more training, not to mollify oneself with an illusion of safety. ignorance is not bliss in this case.
Re: Software is eating the car
#363Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…
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Re: Software is eating the car
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.
You know the dark pattern of presenting a license agreement over and over until it's accepted? I predict one day someone will make the argument in court that they always declined the EULA (perhaps the one in their car) hundreds of times, but one day accidentally brushed "accept" with their finger, and that doesn't constitute legal acceptance, especially since they've demonstrated an effort to decline the EULA, but be…
I thought (IANAL) that EULA with screeds of text and a "Accept" button have been ruled invalid (as in not enforceable in a court) many ties in most jurisdictions.
Am I wrong?
Re: Software is eating the car
#365The problem with this is that auto companies are not software companies. They may have good engineers there, but they are hamstrung with a culture that considers software as an add on cost center at best. Perfect example: I have no way to report software bugs to Honda. I've found a few and collected detailed reproduction data. The best I can do is give it to a sales rep in the service department and hope they send it…
Have you tried to contact an official car service center or official car dealer on this topic?
They may have no way to "report a bug", but they have to deal with customer complaints and issues which need service. It is possible that car service will actually report an issue to SW vendor.
Re: Software is eating the car
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually people lost. But it doesn't matter anyway because the RIAA can't collect it, and the debt was basically the lowest priority.
Do you have a link? I'm trying to dig up stories on it, but it's so stale. As far as I can tell almost everybody settled, and the few that fought in court eventually won. https://www.wired.com/2010/05/riaa-bump/
This woman did.
Re: Software is eating the car
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... The problem with that dumb car is that it is missing that very convenient feature. So you want a dumb car but with feature X, because feature X is really great. But the other guy will not care about X and will think it is bloat, but Y is really important, while for someone else, it will be al…
The features you mention aren't any more "smart" than an intermittent wiper is, which was invented long before electronics appeared in cars, much less digital logic. US luxury cars in 1965 had all the features you mention. They were delightfully dumb and simple to operate. That's what I want now: knobs, sliders, and buttons that move and click when my finger pushes them.
Do you want to pay more for them?
Re: Software is eating the car
#368Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.
Same here. The automakers are trying to pull a fast one by conflating battery power with tons of licensed software with an attack on independent mechanics and serviceability. But I suspect that there is a huge market for low end EVs that can be easily serviced and don't have a lot of software.
Re: Software is eating the car
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... The problem with that dumb car is that it is missing that very convenient feature. So you want a dumb car but with feature X, because feature X is really great. But the other guy will not care about X and will think it is bloat, but Y is really important, while for someone else, it will be al…
> mechanical door lock Power central locking doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates. > manual windows Electric windows doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates. > no car stereo Car stereos do not need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates. > no power steering Power steering doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates. Hel…
I do not mind having computer controlled running gear. But I want to own it. No live updates. No wireless network interface to the system software of any sort. GPL software only.
I do not expect to get that soon.
Re: Software is eating the car
#370150 million lines of code in a Ford F-150? How is that even possible? A Volvo with 100 million lines including 3 million functions. This sounds like generated code to me. I can’t believe this is handwritten or even necessary.
Easily. There are lots of MCUs, and the "infotainment" unit contains big amount of code including an OS like linux or qnx or android.