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Software is eating the car

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Software is eating the car

#241

Post by jedberg »

The problem with this is that auto companies are not software companies. They may have good engineers there, but they are hamstrung with a culture that considers software as an add on cost center at best.

Perfect example: I have no way to report software bugs to Honda. I've found a few and collected detailed reproduction data. The best I can do is give it to a sales rep in the service department and hope they send it "up to corporate".

Compare that to Telsa, which has bug reporting built right into the software in the car, as well as bug bounty program.

And then there are updates. Honda found a bug where the speedometer would just crash and not show your speed anymore. This is was pretty bad, but I had no idea about it until I went into the dealership. There was apparently a recall but I would have had to find that myself, I didn't get a notice. Honda has no built in facility to notify people of software updates and recalls. And then once I found out, the only way to fix it is for a dealership to apply the update. There is no over the air update and no way for me to apply it myself.

Car companies need to learn how to be software first, or things will get very dangerous.

Re: Software is eating the car

#242

Post by InitialBP »

iagovar wrote: post #76
MengerSponge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda doesn't get nearly enough respect for their work identifying and correcting this issue. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... Touchscreens/touch panels are shiny, futuristic, dangerous, dumb, and cheap. Manufacturers use them because they lower BOM costs, at the expense of usability and safety. Vote with your wallet folks.

Does mazdas use rotary engines for ll their cars?

Mazda hasn't sold a production car with a rotary engine in a while, I believe since the RX-8 went out of production. Due to the nature of rotary engines they inherently have worse emissions (more like a 2-stroke than a 4-stroke) and while people have been hoping for another production rotary from Mazda it's unclear if they will build another one or not.

Re: Software is eating the car

#243

Post by Judgmentality »

_jal wrote: post #227
duped wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm the dark pattern developer I'm not logging when the EULA is accepted or how many times they declined it.

Lawyers tend to love it when their opponents think they've found a cute legal hack.

IANAL, but I'm curious if you are. In my experience, lawyers tend to get a lot done by intimidation. Remember all those ridiculous lawsuits from the RIAA over downloading illegal music? Well, it turns out when people actually took them to court they won every time. But people settled out of fear.

Sure, if the lawyers are actually trying to do things legally first and adhering to the letter of the law, I'm sure they're happy to have their efforts challenged. But I have never, ever, in my life encountered a lawyer who worked this way (and I have lawyers in my family, I've been to court, I've personally hired several, blah blah blah). I am not saying they don't know the law, but they use their greater knowledge of the law to their advantage. Their goal isn't transparency, it's submission.

Re: Software is eating the car

#244

Post by wyre »

Koshkin wrote: post #33
bobajeff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I like the tech behind Tesla but am turned off by. 1) The large, distracting screen in the front of the car. 2) The subscription model of the car's firmware. If electric cars ever become widespread I hope I can find a used one engineered without that stuff. Otherwise I may have to stop buying cars.

> If electric cars ever become widespread I have a strong suspicion that soon enough after that we will be able to build electric cars from kits, cheap and with no frills. We are on a cusp of a new technological revolution.

A few years ago I found a source selling EV conversion kits for vintage vehicles. It’s definitely a possibility to DIY an electric car.

I could imagine it being like DIY synthesizer kits. Do it yourself if you have the skills and time to put it all together, or spend a bit more for it to come pre assembled, or “some assembly required”.

I would be curious about the safety regulations behind this.

Re: Software is eating the car

#246

Post by aidenn0 »

What worries me the most is the usage of flash storage backing huge swaths of the functionality in the car. I suspect 10 years from now we will have cars where everything between the dashboard and glove-box does not work because the flash has worn out.

Re: Software is eating the car

#247

Post by InitialBP »

fighterpilot wrote: post #39
galangalalgol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda would make a great EV, but that is sadly not on their roadmap for the foreseeable future. I have been told this is probably an influence from Toyota's large share ownership, not wanting competition in that space.

That's not smart by Toyota (unless they own a very small stake), is it? Mazda competing with Toyota is indeed bad for Toyota but it's also bad for all the other auto manufacturers too. The benefit of that competition goes exclusively to Toyota (among other shareholders) but the cost is shared among all automakers roughly in proportion to their EV market share.

Mazda has been focused on continuing to improve internal combustion engines over the past couple of decades. Specifically, the "Skyactiv" technology they developed was built to help improve efficiency and emissions of modern ICE engines. It's likely Toyota wanted to have some group/company (like Mazda) continue working on improving ICE engines while also investing in EVs.

I think ICE vehicles will continue to have a market, especially in very remote areas of the world where power grids are non-existent or not very reliable.

Re: Software is eating the car

#248

Post by muxator »

jrsj wrote: post #206
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

No you’re not crazy at all; my preference for a vehicle would be analog everything with as few electronic components as possible. Even if it were an EV.

Digital components may well be more reliable than corresponding analog ones. They can also be purely hw, with no sw or just a simple firmware. There is a middle ground between analog circuits and a general purpose programmable computer with windows 10 on it. :)

Re: Software is eating the car

#249

Post by nszceta »

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #200
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #4

It seems that 'hardware' is eating the car, too. I want to just buy a small, slow, simple EV for picking up groceries and other city errands, for $5k-$10k. It seems like the only companies making that are the Chinese, and usually only selling them in China. Heck, it doesn't even need an Infotainment system - just bluetooth for audio and calls, USB-A charger port and phone cradle.

You can get an enclosed mobility scooter for $6k-7k. Many have some sort of stereo system and climate controls though I don't know if they all have your desired features. But they do exist and are for sale in the US and Canada.

The Boomerbuggy X! This fully enclosed mobility scooter is more spacious and has some cool new features! Travel to get your groceries, to your neighbour’s or take it just for a leisurely joy ride without fear of the weather. The Boomer X is fully insulated with heating giving you the warmth and comfort that you need on those cold winter days. The Boomer X also features built in speakers, windshield wipers, and more. Regain your mobility, independence, and sense of freedom with the Boomerbuggy X the next generation of covered mobility scooters!

https://www.daymak.com/boomerbuggy-x.html

Re: Software is eating the car

#250

Post by kiba »

Judgmentality wrote: post #243
_jal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers tend to love it when their opponents think they've found a cute legal hack.

IANAL, but I'm curious if you are. In my experience, lawyers tend to get a lot done by intimidation. Remember all those ridiculous lawsuits from the RIAA over downloading illegal music? Well, it turns out when people actually took them to court they won every time. But people settled out of fear. Sure, if the lawyers are actually trying to do things legally first and adhering to the letter of the law, I'm sure they'r…

Actually people lost. But it doesn't matter anyway because the RIAA can't collect it, and the debt was basically the lowest priority.
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