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Software is eating the car

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281–290 of 549 posts

Re: Software is eating the car

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think backlit E-ink screens would be great for cars. I too want something I can see well in the day.

E-ink is slow/inefficient to react, so probably not suitable for speedometer and tachometer type gauges. Apart from that, I agree.

my truck still has a physical dial for the speedo and tach.

(although i've never understood why it has a tach since its a manual anyway... but i guess i can close my eyes and imagine my V6 ranger is a corvette...)

Re: Software is eating the car

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of our cars is a 2004 Toyota Tacoma with everything analog except the radio, and I vastly prefer it. If it just had a usb plug so I could play music from my phone, it would be ideal. Oh, and oddly, the radio doesn't have a clock. Bizarre. It I can 100% everything better than our 2016 Subaru Outback with it's annoying touch screen console. Plus my nieces and nephews are amused by the actual manual window openers.

FWIW Subaru kinda just has crappy digital components. Corresponding touch screen console from recent year Toyotas are pretty good, especially with CarPlay / Android Auto.

In my recent Subaru Impreza, CarPlay works just fine, however when I start the engine and put it in reverse, it will mostly ignore the volume control until you finish backing up and then a few second after you shift into drive/forward, it will then process the volume up/down messages it received in the meantime. It's like it dedicates all processing to booting up the screen and then in displaying the rear-view/backup camera. Also, it defaults to playing the radio (even if you had it OFF before, I think), so if you had the volume up for a quiet podcast or something it will blast the radio which is quite annoying, especially if you're in the middle of a phone call or something. I want a physical potentiometer which directly controls the amplifier to the speakers, like in any normal old radio. (This is also one of the exhibits in my mental list of reasons that people should write all the software they run on their devices. Or at least be able to.)

Re: Software is eating the car

#283

Nothing worse than automotive software. Buggy, slow, terrible user interfaces, outright dangerous and in many ways much worse than the systems they replace or augment. The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors. Case in point: my - former - C class Mercedes that made two pretty good attempts to kill me by slamming o…

One of the main problems is that we have many different software teams trying to solve the same safety feature driven functions in many different ways with many different solutions, outcomes, and decisions along the way. This leads to a very fragmented base of software with varying levels of safety, none of which is tested to the same standards. The result is that consumers don't know of the car they are buying is truly safe at all

Re: Software is eating the car

#284

What worries me the most is the usage of flash storage backing huge swaths of the functionality in the car. I suspect 10 years from now we will have cars where everything between the dashboard and glove-box does not work because the flash has worn out.

already happening in tesla cars

Re: Software is eating the car

#285
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... The problem with that dumb car is that it is missing that very convenient feature. So you want a dumb car but with feature X, because feature X is really great. But the other guy will not care about X and will think it is bloat, but Y is really important, while for someone else, it will be al…

It's not inevitable. At one point we made a 6th gen Honda Civic.

This was literally the pinnacle of dumb cars. Everything could be manual or automatic, but you still got OBDII, warning lights, and of course ABS and air bags. Adding a new DIN head unit, you could have HD radio and Bluetooth completely disconnected from the ECU. I think the automotive industry forgot how to engineer. All the features, all we ever needed in a car, was right there in the late 90s.

Re: Software is eating the car

#286

Nothing worse than automotive software. Buggy, slow, terrible user interfaces, outright dangerous and in many ways much worse than the systems they replace or augment. The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors. Case in point: my - former - C class Mercedes that made two pretty good attempts to kill me by slamming o…

Holyshit, thanks for the heads up. If I rent a new car, first thing I’m doing is disabling all this crap.

As long as pre-2010 cars are available, I’m gonna continue driving them.

Re: Software is eating the car

#287

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

I bought a new Nissan Kicks last year (the lowest-end crossover SUV) and it seems pretty dumb. It has no internet connectivity as far as I can tell. It has a touch-screen, but it's pretty much just for the backup camera and audio controls, everything else has physical controls. It does have a computer that is involved in operating the CVT, but besides that it never gets in my way. And it does have sensors for the saf…

> I bought a new Nissan Kicks last year (the lowest-end crossover SUV) and it seems pretty dumb.

Not sure about 2020, but 2021 has Automatic breaking, pedestrian detection, and collision detection standard. There are likely a few hundred thousand to millions lines of code in these various systems. Even "dumb" cars today have tons of software, it's just hidden since it doesn't require user input. Literally every aspect of your driving is fully computerized - braking, acceleration, engine spark plug ignition, transmission, steering, etc. The infotainment is often relatively simple compared to all of the other software running internally.

Re: Software is eating the car

#289
post #194
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.

So you want a mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control, etc... The problem with that dumb car is that it is missing that very convenient feature. So you want a dumb car but with feature X, because feature X is really great. But the other guy will not care about X and will think it is bloat, but Y is really important, while for someone else, it will be al…

> mechanical door lock

Power central locking doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates.

> manual windows

Electric windows doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates.

> no car stereo

Car stereos do not need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates.

> no power steering

Power steering doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates. Hell it doesn't even require electronics.

> no thermostat

Thermostats are mechanical...

> no cruise control

Cruise control doesn't need a microcontroller, code, or a touch screen, or updates.

Re: Software is eating the car

#290

The problem with this is that auto companies are not software companies. They may have good engineers there, but they are hamstrung with a culture that considers software as an add on cost center at best. Perfect example: I have no way to report software bugs to Honda. I've found a few and collected detailed reproduction data. The best I can do is give it to a sales rep in the service department and hope they send it…

On the other hand, having seen the software industry I don't really want its values applied to cars. Games used to be shipped on chips to customers with the assumption that they could never be updated, but now the expectation that that's possible results in multi GB release day patches. Games used to be shipped to consoles without network access but if Blizzard goes out of business tomorrow, Starcraft II will just fa…

Not every company embraces those sorts of worst practices. Especially hardware companies. Tesla and Apple are good examples of this. They have strong QA policies and make their money from hardware so they don't have to do all those "you must be connected" tricks. Sure, both still have bugs, but not like web apps and games.

Most of what you listed applies to web apps and games, not bespoke software for hardware.

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