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Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

reuters.com

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Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#61

Post by dfsegoat »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #33
dfsegoat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are alarming based on the measure of Observed vs. Expected cases. Observed (O) cases in that age group: 283 Expected (E) cases in that age group: 10-102 So at least double the top of the confidence interval, for expected.

but that's out of 13m doses, so ~200 out of 13m. I'm not sure how that compares to the expected harm from catching covid but I imagine the vaccine still ends up massively favourable

Per the article. The age group of concern "accounted for less than 9% of doses administered."

Also, underreporting is a factor - not everyone knows about VAERS, not everyone goes to the Dr. for chest pain etc.

I agree it's favorable, but it's important to understand the effects of any medicine on subgroups of a treatment population.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#62

Post by newsclues »

lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #39
newsclues wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spike protein causes cellular damage, doesn’t matter if it comes from the vaccine or virus

Yes, but the route in which a vaccination takes place (IM injection into deltoid) should mean that much much less of the spike protein ends up in the heart and lungs vs a natural infection. As well, the overall amount of spike protein in the body will be less. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/sp... “Consider what happens when you’re infected by the actual coronavirus. We know now that the hug…

“Should”

Has it been tested?

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#63

Post by fwip »

swader999 wrote: post #56
shawabawa3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that's out of 13m doses, so ~200 out of 13m. I'm not sure how that compares to the expected harm from catching covid but I imagine the vaccine still ends up massively favourable

Have to really consider if the 200 are but a fraction of the actual though. I mean how many are going to be reported?

I'd wager it's approximately the same fraction of myocarditis cases that are reported in the unvaccinated group. There may even be a bias toward over-reporting myocarditis in the wake of a vaccine, as people are primed to look for side effects.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#64

Post by psychlops »

elliekelly wrote: post #12
thatswrong0 wrote: post #3

Anecdote: I had this reaction to the 2nd dose of the Pfizer vaccine, saw a cardiologist and she mentioned that she’s been seeing this quite a bit after the second dose. Have had to lay low for a month, but it seems like the symptoms are finally passing.

If you don’t mind sharing I’d be curious to hear how you knew something was wrong? If I were a man in my teens or early 20s (or even 30s!) I feel like I would chalk any chest pain up to anxiety or heartburn before I ever even considered the possibility of a heart situation. My understanding is myocarditis is usually not a big deal but it does require treatment and isn’t something you should just “wait and see” if it…

I had this as a side effect of covid last year. You are correct, no medication was given and they won't actually do a biopsy of your heart due to the risk so the will simply wait and see.

It feels like a big deal. I had never had heart issues and it felt like my whole system was unstable. Hard to describe really. I don't know how serious it is, however. The cardiologists just tested my heart, saw that there was no blockage and the blood flow was strong and told me to rest.

edit to add: On the second dose of Pfizer, I felt a minor version of this for about an hour in the middle of the night after a morning shot. No other symptoms beyond a strong immune response.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#65

Post by Kognito »

ezekg wrote: post #50
beefman wrote: post #35

This is based on VAERS data. I encourage the curious to look at this data. I did. I would characterize its quality as so poor that probably no conclusions at all can be drawn from it. And I usually find myself defending the use of noisy and/or small data in similar situations.

I've heard less than 1% of adverse reactions are actually reported to VAERS.

Yeah, how many people actually bother to report their symptoms if they’re not serious enough to warrant a trip to the doctor (who might report on their behalf)?

Mild myo can go undetected quite easily. In fact, it’s known well as being a cause of death in young athletes who only learn of the condition when their heart gives out during intense physical exertion.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#66

Post by bialpio »

pmccarren wrote: post #43
pmccarren wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: I too experienced this reaction, albeit after the first dose. Noticeable but not significant heart pain beginning approximately 4 hours after getting the first vaccine. Speaking with medical professionals, they said symptoms should improve with time, and they have nearly completely across the 1.5 months since. Unsure if worth noting, but I had very strong immune responses to both the first and second doses.

Pure, unadulterated speculation: It felt like the mRNA took hold in both my arm, _and_ my heart. Which given the proximity and paths between, is not entirely surprising. It felt like the vaccine entered my bloodstream and was taken up, in part, by the heart. Which then started making spike protein and soliciting an immune response. I'd really love to learn more about this, but haven't been able to find any good resou…

This post was interesting to me and would mean that if the shot got into your bloodstream, it could've been mis-administered? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27464226

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#67

Post by gabriel9 »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #3

Anecdote: I had this reaction to the 2nd dose of the Pfizer vaccine, saw a cardiologist and she mentioned that she’s been seeing this quite a bit after the second dose. Have had to lay low for a month, but it seems like the symptoms are finally passing.

This sounds more scary then covid. At least from the people who told me how was it when they had the infection, four of my friends to be precise. Did you doctor said about any long term issues or it is too early?

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#69

Post by shadowgovt »

beefman wrote: post #35

This is based on VAERS data. I encourage the curious to look at this data. I did. I would characterize its quality as so poor that probably no conclusions at all can be drawn from it. And I usually find myself defending the use of noisy and/or small data in similar situations.

VAERS is a clearinghouse. It's a vital tool for finding evidence of possible unexpected interactions that should be investigated, but it's basically textbook "correlations that do not imply causation" data.

The most a correlation in VAERS, by itself, should ever generate is a "huh, that's interesting" reaction and possibly a controlled follow-up study. HHS has a very large disclaimer on the dataset's description (https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html).

The data is also, at this phase of collection, unfiltered and unverified. Self-reporting biases and simple mistakes are a known concern. There's a relatively famous story of someone, as a sanity-check on the process, reporting that a flu vaccine had turned them into the Incredible Hulk. https://web.archive.org/web/20130419004549/http://neurodiver...

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#70

Post by mrfusion »

Kognito wrote: post #25

Very interesting given one of the lesser known complications of covid can be myocarditis in otherwise healthy individuals with few or no other covid symptoms. In fact, it’s likely the incidence of covid-induced myocarditis is vastly underreported given it often shows no symptoms and can only reasonably be diagnosed with a cardiac MRI which is not always widely available or advised for less-serious heart conditions. I…

COVID induced myocarditis has been thoroughly disproven:

https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/14/setting-the-record-strai...

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