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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#431
post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

How many of those users have 8.8.8.8 as DNS and have no clue they pipe all their usage to google?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

Wells dug with modern equipment are a perfectly good alternative to municipal water - they can free one from over-regulated or poorly managed utilities. Even in the outskirts of California metros it's sometimes the only option without shelling out hundreds of thousands for extensions. DuckDuckGo, on the other hand, is just Google with bangs, an insignificant spec compared to the latter. Edit: DuckDuckGo US market sha…

Then you can also play a tragedy-of-the-commons aquifer game with all the commercial users of water in your area. Can you afford to keep making your well deeper than theirs? There are a few towns in California engaged in the resulting endgame.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

1) Google isn't carrying anything. It's your ISP that's actually carrying the bits to your house/work/phone/implants. 2) What google search is providing is literally content that they've created. I really don't see how this suit won't get dismissed on first amendment grounds.

I am not saying the suit has merit or will or won't get dismissed. I am saying Google's dominance in search and its willingness to use that to suppress/influence should make everyone want that to be a more competitive market.

It is not good that you need to pay "protection" money to Google so that your business shows up when your exact business name is searched (if your competitors buys your keywords). That is of course ok because its Google's business decision. What is less ok is that there are no new search companies making any headway in regards to market share. It is a stagnant sector of what should be a dynamic industry.

I want an endless corporate bar fight of companies trying to be better at search that works incredibly/game-changingly with any tool I have (not just Google apps).

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#434
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got banned from Facebook for swearing basically. Someone took it as 'cyberbullying' or whatever nonsense. I tried to appeal explaining my intentions, but they basically told me that my intentions don't matter. By the way, spreading misinformation like the infamous lab leak theory? Facebook fact checkers are a joke, they're fact checking stupid memes.

What was it specifically that got you banned?

It was just an old meme and it was in my native language so you wouldn't get, but the offensive part of it is simply 'bitch'. Not as a direct insult, but kinda like in "surprise, bitch".

Another thing is that I got suspended for butting in to a conversation about homosexuality where someone was saying that homosexuality is natural, and I said something to the extent of "rape and murder is natural too" to point out the fallacy and they sent me on a 30-day vacation from Facebook for that.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#435
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this behaviour shows up in non-monopolistic markets as well. Apple does it. PayPal does it. Heck, our European banks have started doing it despite there being ample competition. What the competition did, is made sure EVERY competing entity does that because it's cheaper and costs were brought down with race to the bottom. I don't get where this bizarre belief that "moar free market" will solve issues. Let…

Freedom of association is important, and you shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to.

That’s why selling as a private individual is different to setting up a company, in the first you can choose not to sell to whomever for whatever reason with no legal comeback. Try denying service to someone in a protected class if you’re in the second and you may well end up with real legal problems.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

1) Google isn't carrying anything. It's your ISP that's actually carrying the bits to your house/work/phone/implants. 2) What google search is providing is literally content that they've created. I really don't see how this suit won't get dismissed on first amendment grounds.

Google has a near monopoly on search traffic.

Businesses HAVE to use Google for ads. Only placing ads on DuckDuckGo is not a viable strategy when more than 80% of all search traffic is via Google.

Google prioritizes their own products. Sometimes they even copy ideas and implement their own version of a product, and then they bump the competitors below themselves in the search results.

THAT is the problem, and why the lawsuit might hold water.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

That is a terrible argument. "Go sh*t in a chemical toiled" is not a reasonable alternative, the cost alone is ludicrous. Just have the decency and maturity to admit when you are wrong instead of arguing that you should "go dig a well" in the middle of the city. This is why we can't have reasonable conversations anymore.

People who can't admit monopolies exist are why this conversation is consistently stupid. You.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least a dozen companies you can buy water from and have it delivered to a giant storage tank made by at least 5 different companies. Or you could use a number of companies to dig a well for you. Many people don't have access to municipal water and when I didn't, this is what I did.

Most apartment buildings won't let you store large amounts of water on property.

That's not even remotely comparable.

Firstly it's not structurally practical to store giant tanks of water on private property. So the comparison makes no practical sense anyway.

But more, there is a significant market for private water in other properties. It's a non-trivial market which serves a significant proportion of the US population.

There is no significant market for private/non-Google search. Not only is DDG a footnote, but Google's dominance forces businesses to take steps to optimise their Google rank - or face penalties by losing access to potential customers.

Google can also remove businesses who aren't even customers from its rankings on a whim, with no redress.

It's clearly a monopoly.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#439
post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

Try finding a smartphone under 250$, try advertising any small business on the internet, try avoiding meets meeting when you apply for a job

[deleted]

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can find a smartphone for under 250 at any phone store. These phones all run android or have no features which are required in the modern age. The OP point is that avoiding google is a privilege many do not have. >Small business are finding success through facebook Your competitors are advertising on facebook and google. If you want to compete you have no choice but to do both.

> Your competitors are advertising on facebook and google. If you want to compete you have no choice but to do both. My intuition is this is not a meaningful factor for a locally-focused business.

And if you are bigger than local it doesn't matter if you are forced to do business with google? It's pretty easy to come up with a number of ways people are forced to use google products and how they should be treated different to small services.

Right now it would be completely within googles right to block an individual from using youtube at all. You would have no legal recourse against this and it would massively impact your life. Almost all video on the web is on youtube. Even government information videos are hosted on youtube now as well as countless general information videos and health/safety videos.

It's pretty easy to make a case that everyone should have a right to watch videos on youtube because of how important the content on youtube is. This is what making google a utility means. If some random forum bans you, you get on with your life. If Google does something it can have serious impacts on your life where you have no options for alternatives.

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