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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#111

Post by caslon »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

Google-avoider checking in! It's actually really easy to avoid it. DuckDuckGo's search quality is better, Firefox is deteriorating daily but still looks and feels better than Chrome does, email should really be avoided but there are dozens of really good email services, and their ad service doesn't need a replacement for obvious reasons (just block it).

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#112

Post by SonicScrub »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #77
ericmay wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even just divesting YouTube would be a start.

YouTube is hardly profitable. They would barely be able to afford their own infrastructure under their current revenue. They would immediately be acquired by a competitor or declare bankruptcy.

That's an argument for the break-up, not one against it. If Google is using their monopoly powers to create wholly unprofitable endeavors, then they are likely choking out competition. There can be no Youtube Killer if Youtube does not have to make money.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#113

Post by satellite2 »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

Try finding a smartphone under 250$, try advertising any small business on the internet, try avoiding meets meeting when you apply for a job

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#114

Post by sneak »

woodruffw wrote: post #55
jolmg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Google isn't the only provider of email addresses. In contrast, water utilities typically hold monopoly over their region. EDIT: Many people are replying with some variant that the problem is that Google can block the email account that people have tied to their financial and government services. But the same is true of any other email provider. If Google is somehow turned into a public utility, how does that sol…

I don't know where I stand on the public utility argument, but to make the strongest possible case for this analogy: most peoples' online lives (including their financials) are tied to a singular email address. That email address forms the ground truth for their identity, including being able to access services that they've lost their credentials for. Google's ability to unilaterally revoke access to the account that…

People opted in to that. You don't opt in to the water pipe monopoly.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#115

Post by bananabreakfast »

ketzo wrote: post #81
jeffbee wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name even one way in which Google resembles a public utility. When I build a house, do I have to pay $25k to get my Google pipes hooked up? Seriously where are the parallels?

It's a service with which essentially every person living in present-day America needs to interact on a day-to-day basis. And yes, they need to. I think it is hugely disingenuous to pretend otherwise. We can talk all day about how DuckDuckGo and ProtonMail exist. But for a huge, huge majority of people, Google simply is the internet.

Hard disagree.

Gmail maybe. Providing email as a utility service is a strained argument but could be made as there is a parallel to actual mail service.

Literally everything else Google does has a mainstream alternative that is a click away.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#116

Post by tintor »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

Bottled water, water tanks, septic tanks, solar/wind power, generators, ...

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#117

Post by pcmoney »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels...

Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely irrelevant aside from their ability to help Google sell ads) they are focused solely on search. Not saying they are "right" just that Google's search dominance is a thing and they use it support their own stuff. Eg: You can buy our electricity but it only "recommends" appliances we also sell

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#118

Post by asiachick »

mc32 wrote: post #44
dantheman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of association is important, and you shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to.

So it’s okay for banks to choose who they’ll let bank with them? In any case, I disagree. Some things are basic necessities.

banks do that all the time. try writing a few checks over your balance and not paying up. they will definitely terminate your account.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/can-my-bank-close...

That said I do wish there was some regulation for accounts for Apple, Microsoft, Google, Steam, etc as closing an account can have huge reprocussions.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#119

Post by zdragnar »

mc32 wrote: post #44
dantheman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of association is important, and you shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to.

So it’s okay for banks to choose who they’ll let bank with them? In any case, I disagree. Some things are basic necessities.

Credit unions frequently have exclusive membership, typically a certain geographical area though many started out specifically for members of certain unions.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#120

Post by _hyn3 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #34

> the lawsuit seeks a legal declaration that Google is a "common carrier," like phone, gas and electric companies, which must provide its services to anyone willing to pay its fee. How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier?

> How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier?

The internet isn't a thing. It's not a single entity (or even a single idea).

It was different in the days of Ma Bell, when there was one entity for the entire U.S. with phone service (could we define that in today's age? is VOIP phone service? mobile? Whatsapp?), and it was even different later, when the baby bells blanketed the U.S. without overlapping areas.

What makes this more challenging is that by regulating "ISPs" (if someone could please define that, or even what the Internet is, in a legal sense), we might then be strangling new and interesting startups that might not conform to the definition of an ISP from a decade prior.

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