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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#201

Post by DarknessFalls »

pcmoney wrote: post #117
adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

> You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store.

This is a false equivalence. Comparing Google to a municipal water system and other search engines to purchasing bottled water eliminates certain key features of the service, like water conditioning and infrastructure. I use DuckDuckGo and it is no where near the inconvenience implied by "dig a well".

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#202

Post by wyager »

gruez wrote: post #196
ziftface wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they would do that as well, but that certainly doesn't invalidate these concerns

It doesn't invalidate the concerns, but it makes you question their motivations.

If this violates your a priori expectation of politicians' behavior, your prior was bad.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#203

Post by ttt0 »

verall wrote: post #182
ttt0 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs don't abuse their power like Google, Facebook, Twitter etc. do.

They absolutely do? ISPs frequently rate the top of most hated companies lists, and many Americans do not have access to more than 1 ISP offering (>=30mbit) high speed internet.

Well then go after them too. And most importantly, go after banks, payment processors and money/infrastructure people in general so they aren't allowed to kick people off just because they don't like someone.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#204

Post by kixiQu »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #191
adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

> But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. Not video hosting you don't. If you want to build a significant English speaking audience, your only real choice is YouTube, because that's where people search from. Seriously, who has a "Vimeo" app on their phone? On their set-top box? Same thing if you want to watch interesting videos: most of the content is on YouTube.

That's not video hosting that's monopolyish, then, that's English-speaking-audience video discovery, which is a quite different proposition.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#205

Post by wyager »

leafmeal wrote: post #181
Aunche wrote: post #25

While Google is functionally a public utility, it's not something that I want to be regulated like a public utility. If the government can't be trusted to law lines on a map that aren't blatantly rigged to favor their own political party, I can't trust that they won't tamper with search results the same way.

At least with government we have the powers of oversight and political organizing. It seems like a better bet then a corporation who's accountable to a bottom line, or owners.

I trust "political organizing" (codeword for astroturfing and cathedral control) less than I trust Google's profit interests.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#206

Post by caslon »

BMorearty wrote: post #146
caslon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google-avoider checking in! It's actually really easy to avoid it. DuckDuckGo's search quality is better, Firefox is deteriorating daily but still looks and feels better than Chrome does, email should really be avoided but there are dozens of really good email services, and their ad service doesn't need a replacement for obvious reasons (just block it).

I’m disappointed to hear Firefox is deteriorating daily. I disagree about DDG’s search quality. I tried it for six months and that was not my experience. Eventually went back to Google.

Yeah, it's certainly unfortunate. It gets just a little worse with every single update. The last one removed compact mode, which was the only thing making the UI somewhat bearable on-screen. It is now terribly large and unappealing.

What do you use a search engine for? Depending on your set of interests, turning off or on localization might have helped.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#207

Post by api »

Hamuko wrote: post #2

So Republicans have completely flipped on the sovereignity of private companies? Or is this just posturing to please the number one of the GOP (Dave Yost filed a “friend of the court” brief in support of invalidating 2020 votes in Pennsylvania)?

Only when it comes to private company actions that could harm the Republican Party.

Also: RTFA and this is not really about political stuff. It's about prioritization of businesses in search results in ways that are anti-competitive.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#208

Post by akiselev »

genericuser314 wrote: post #148
pcmoney wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

Wells dug with modern equipment are a perfectly good alternative to municipal water - they can free one from over-regulated or poorly managed utilities. Even in the outskirts of California metros it's sometimes the only option without shelling out hundreds of thousands for extensions.

DuckDuckGo, on the other hand, is just Google with bangs, an insignificant spec compared to the latter.

Edit: DuckDuckGo US market share: 2.5% [1], US population getting their water from a well: 13% [2]

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1220046/duckduckgo-searc...

[2] https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/scie...

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#209

Post by bsimpson »

It's interesting when they use examples like Google Flights. You can certainly make the argument that Google Flights is just a flight-specific results page for Google Search.

The lines between search and many other Google products are pretty blurry.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#210

Post by Covzire »

Hamuko wrote: post #2

So Republicans have completely flipped on the sovereignity of private companies? Or is this just posturing to please the number one of the GOP (Dave Yost filed a “friend of the court” brief in support of invalidating 2020 votes in Pennsylvania)?

Regulating monopolies is a bipartisan issue isn't it? The fact is that three companies in the same or adjacent zip codes have a monopoly over the online square, which means that especially during times of a pandemic, if they take away someone's voice their free speech is effectively null and void.
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