Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 748 posts

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#401

Post by gonehome »

caslon wrote: post #157
ccity88 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's actually not that easy. Most of the web uses google analytics, so its unavoidable when you visit a website. Most of the web's emails are routed through google; I remember reading a post about a guy who set up his own SMTP server and everything, but then realised that everyone he was contacting was using gmail anyway (can't find the post). Every time you see an add that's served by google, that means that…

"Most of the web uses google analytics, so its unavoidable when you visit a website." I actually mentioned that. Just shim GA connections; this happens with most ad-blocking software, and I believe happens in Firefox's "strict" mode by default. It's really trivial. "Most of the web's emails are routed through google; I remember reading a post about a guy who set up his own SMTP server and everything, but then realise…

I think it's more possible than others are suggesting, but I think there are exceptions.

There is no good competitor to YouTube - there are a lot of bad ones yes, but no good one. I'd argue this is objective fact.

I use fastmail and my own domain, but most people use gmail - I don't think that's that big of a deal though.

It's odd they'd target Google in the OP - telecom providers like Comcast and Spectrum are much worse in how they treat their customers and in those cases there really isn't another option most of the time.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#402

Post by anders_p »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #199
genericuser314 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

People talking like drilling a well in your backward is on par with typing in a different URL. So how about this, the upfront cost and effort of typing in a different URL is at least a few orders of magnitude easier than drilling a well.

> People talking like drilling a well in your backward is on par with typing in a different URL. So how about this, the upfront cost and effort of typing in a different URL is at least a few orders of magnitude easier than drilling a well.

You talking like BUILDING A POWER PLANT is on par with drilling a well in your backward.

So how about this, the upfront cost and effort of DRILLING A WELL is at least a few orders of magnitude easier than BUILDING A POWER PLANT.

---

Does that mean water shouldn't be a utility?

Or what was your point exactly?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#403

Post by jrochkind1 »

gruez wrote: post #196
ziftface wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they would do that as well, but that certainly doesn't invalidate these concerns

It doesn't invalidate the concerns, but it makes you question their motivations.

What does it make you suspect their motivations are?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#404

Post by pcmoney »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #396
justbored123 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a terrible argument. "Go sh*t in a chemical toiled" is not a reasonable alternative, the cost alone is ludicrous. Just have the decency and maturity to admit when you are wrong instead of arguing that you should "go dig a well" in the middle of the city. This is why we can't have reasonable conversations anymore.

You completely misunderstood the comment you're replying to. He's saying that the mere existence of alternatives does not preclude something from being a utility.

Thank you! I am also not even saying Google _should_ be a utility just that the standards for what makes something a utility candidate are not standard but rather arbitrary. Most utilities came about through lobbying one way or another not through some clinical application of rules.

I am concerned with Google's search dominance and its ability to use that to suppress and manipulate even if it is just to get me to buy something.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#405

Post by simonh »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #262
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's really cool that a company has done a good enough job in so many different areas that the other alternatives are often unambiguously worse.

No, its products are forced down your threat and impossible to avoid.

We’ve got multiple comments right here saying how easy it was for them to avoid Google completely.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#406

Post by themolecularman »

pyuser583 wrote: post #217
adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

My elderly parents are unable to make the switch from Yahoo to Google. I’ve walked them through it multiple times. It’s just not possible for them. They don’t have the knowledge and skills. They are smart. Advanced degrees in STEM. Multiple languages. Doesn’t matter. I can’t imagine the transition from Google to DuckDuckGo/Firefox/ProtonMail being easier. Am I wrong about that?

> My elderly parents are unable to make the switch from Yahoo to Google. I’ve walked them through it multiple times. It’s just not possible for them. They don’t have the knowledge and skills.

How old are your parents?

Is it search you're referring to or the email platforms of each?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#409

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

I'm surprised I haven't seen much in the responses to this comment that the issue isn't so much that consumers have other options (though given how high Google's search reach is, how relevant is that if hardly anyone does), it's that for most businesses your option is either have a strong search presence on Google or go out of business. There is just no viable path to avoid Google as a business when they control 80+ percent of search market share.

And you not only need to play the SEO game, you have to pray that Google just doesn't decide to get into your business and start returning their own results instead (which is exactly what this lawsuit is about). Especially since Google has had the chance to suck up all the data that you've provided in optimizing your site to provide the most relevant results.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#410

Post by asddubs »

jpitz wrote: post #362
asddubs wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one reason I've heard against smart meters is that it would make it easy for power companies to start charging non commercial users for apparent power rather than real power, as a way to indirectly raise prices.

Why would you need a smart meter?

because it's remotely updateable, and an analogue meter cannot measure apparent power (when the power returns to the grid the wheel would spin in the other direction)
Post reply on HN