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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#211
post #106
post #25

While Google is functionally a public utility, it's not something that I want to be regulated like a public utility. If the government can't be trusted to law lines on a map that aren't blatantly rigged to favor their own political party, I can't trust that they won't tamper with search results the same way.

The cost-per-search is negligible even if every user had to pay. Instead of running the search the government could implement policies that make search advertising illegal and thus forcing another business model. Pay-per-search would be cheap enough for municipalities to negotiate subscriptions for their entire broadband network as a part of broadband service.

> Pay-per-search

Yeah, the last thing I would want my search history to be tied to is my payment information.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#212
A big problem with software and people who write software (often) is that software doesn't like all the ways that human beings misbehave, change their minds, don't have immutable states, and don't fit into the categories you build for them.

So any system that has a duty to serve everyone eventually ends up with an operational component that has almost as much human interaction and problem solving required as the software side of it. Or the software has to be really smart or complex.

Tech companies don't like that because that increases a lot of costs. For some companies, they manage to convince their users to behave well enough to fit into the box. Other companies have to reduce their profits, or go kicking and screaming down the path of accepting the cost of business.

Example: Public electric company wants to switch people to smart meters to reduce the cost of going to read every meter, more reliable operation, easier billing, turn on/shut off, etc. Reduce the number of legacy billing systems. People turn out to irrationally not want smart meters. Now utility needs to maintain 2 systems, and an exception list of people who don't want the smart meter system, and still have to run trucks and meter readers, and procedures for people with old meters.

If something is to be declared a utility, the tech company had better gulp in fear of what's required. But we better as well, if we're thinking of wanting our software to be turned into something that involves those obligations and costs too. There's a reason that Google (well, maybe other tech companies) bring you new things, and the electric company doesn't. It's not all roses.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

There are at least a dozen companies you can buy water from and have it delivered to a giant storage tank made by at least 5 different companies. Or you could use a number of companies to dig a well for you. Many people don't have access to municipal water and when I didn't, this is what I did.

Those companies aren't utility companies though.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#215
post #6

We usually have to pay for utilities, no? If Google search were a utility what would my search bill look like?

There already exist paid search services which you can compare Google to. I use infinitysearch and it costs US $5 per month. It's true that their coverage isn't as good as google, but around $1 per week feels very cheap. And the decreased coverage is at least partly compensated by being treated like a customer instead of a product.

Interesting, never heard of that before. If I can ask, why do you use Infinity Search over Duck Duck Go?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#217
post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

My elderly parents are unable to make the switch from Yahoo to Google. I’ve walked them through it multiple times. It’s just not possible for them. They don’t have the knowledge and skills.

They are smart. Advanced degrees in STEM. Multiple languages. Doesn’t matter.

I can’t imagine the transition from Google to DuckDuckGo/Firefox/ProtonMail being easier.

Am I wrong about that?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#218

Why can't we all collectively show an attitude of humble gratitude to an organization that has done so much to advance our civilization and improve our quality of life?

Because that organization has abused its power and gone from serving the public to ruling it.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#219
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier? The internet isn't a thing. It's not a single entity (or even a single idea). It was different in the days of Ma Bell, when there was one entity for the entire U.S. with phone service (could we define that in today's age? is VOIP phone service? mobile? Whatsapp?), and it was even different later, when the baby be…

when people talk about the "the internet" being a public utility, they mean internet access . which is "a thing", and is a single discrete idea. public utility status for the internet means that every packet delivered over internet protocol (aka "IP", which again, is a thing ) must be delivered by the carrier/ISP without discrimination.

Yes. If my service was declared a common carrier I'd experiment with creating my own ISP and banning people at the ISP level, which also happens to be the only ISP hosting my service.

This is why this doesn't make sense. Some internet companies can arbitrarily block you and others can't?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#220

> the lawsuit seeks a legal declaration that Google is a "common carrier," like phone, gas and electric companies, which must provide its services to anyone willing to pay its fee. How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier?

Great point. I can't imagine paying for water, and then having the pipe company ban me, and having no recourse.

Not defending Google, but it's because the analogy does not hold. You can be hardly banned from receiving water, because the interaction with it is pretty limited and it does not allow you to directly interact with other individuals.
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