Earlier quoted context omitted.
We’ve had inflation during the entire three decades this decline took place over.
Check out lumber
That's not inflation. Inflation doesn't just affect a single commodity, it affects all commodities.
The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
51–60 of 330 posts
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Think Moore's Law, which is dead now. Look again. Moore's law in terms of single threaded performance is dead. In literal terms of number of transistors on a wafer, it's still increasing exponentially, just slower. And in terms of what mattered when people cited Moore's law, the decrease in price/performance, it's still exponential, just slower and multi core. It will end, as all exponential trends must end lest th…
I am sure there is some sci fi novel where species compete for neutron stars because they are a very dense compute substrate.
In the Perfect Imperfection by Jacek Dukaj [0] has something called "Remy's curve" [1].
On the curve you can find:
- Ultimate Computer is the computer using the best hardware as allowed by the physical constants of our universe. See also physics of computation.
- Inclusions are in essence 'pocket universes'. They are created for specific entities to run hardware in a dedicated universe with physical constants different from ours, allowing for better performance than those in our universe
- Ultimate Inclusion is the inclusion with the best possible set of physical constants in the entire multiverse
Seth Lloyd wrote a paper "Ultimate physical limits to computation" [2].
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Imperfection
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Imperfection#/media/Fi...
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#53Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was under the impression that mixing and matching cells (by model or by age/number of charge cycles used) can be sketchy. For example, if you have a very heavily used battery in series with new battery, everything may look okay externally, but you may end up over-discharging the older battery. What are your thoughts on this? Haven't had any issues? Or do you take steps to mitigate it?
Match them based on internal resistance and capacity after running some tests. Most people don't even really bother with the resistance.
You'd be far better off matching them based on percent of original capacity and internal resistance. A 3200mAh cell worn to 2600mAh is in far worse shape than a 2800mAh cell worn to 2600mAh, though you'd probably also see a big difference in internal resistance between them. You might also consider checking IR at various states of charge, if you're being comprehensive.
... and at that point, short of massive automation in a fireproof area, you're almost certainly going to come out ahead buying new cells.
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#55Although Li-Ion cells are getting cheaper and cheaper every year, it still is worth salvaging the good ones from depleted laptop battery packs. When a laptop battery pack is gone it's almost always the case of one, max two, 18650 elements that failed, not the whole pack. I've built some good power banks using empty shells (very cheap on Ebay, Aliexpress etc.) and fitting inside the good cells salvaged that way. They…
Does this come with a “know what you are doing” caveat? I’d be scared of creating an electric firelighter in the process. Also assuming money is no object. Is it as good for the environment to recycle the old battery and buy a refurbed one.
Yes, sorry for not stressing this enough: extra care must be taken when dealing with Lithium cells. They pack a lot of power in a small space, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated; even physical damage with no heat involved can turn them into fireworks, so always treat them the right way. Never ever short them or apply excessive charge or discharge, use only good quality chargers and never ever let them unsupervised during charge.
If a cell catches fire accidentally, don't attempt to extinguish it with water or sand as they are 100% ineffective, keep a specific safety container for Lithium cells at hand and if you feel you can can fit the cell into it to contain the fire in a bunch of seconds hold your breath and do it, otherwise get the f out of there because the fumes are extremely toxic and would seriously harm you before even getting a burn.
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this come with a “know what you are doing” caveat? I’d be scared of creating an electric firelighter in the process. Also assuming money is no object. Is it as good for the environment to recycle the old battery and buy a refurbed one.
Yes, sorry for not stressing this enough: extra care must be taken when dealing with Lithium cells. They pack a lot of power in a small space, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated; even physical damage with no heat involved can turn them into fireworks, so always treat them the right way. Never ever short them or apply excessive charge or discharge, use only good quality chargers and never ever let them unsup…
> ... because the fumes are extremely toxic and would seriously harm you before even getting a burn.
I mentioned it elsewhere, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid_burn is a very relevant read on the nature of "toxic." Most of the rest of the stuff isn't much friendlier.
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I replied with some questions about the safety of this, as I had some concerns when reading it. Aside from the issue I mentioned in reply, the only real caveat would be "know the basics of working with electronics without shorting things or electrocuting yourself" and "check out some youtube videos on rebuilding 18650 packs so you don't do it in a horribly wrong way".
> "check out some youtube videos on rebuilding 18650 packs so you don't do it in a horribly wrong way". Bad idea, because about 90% of what they do is fine, and 10% is very, very wrong. Unless you know what you're doing, it's almost impossible to tell which is which.
Fair enough. I haven't seen any of the 10%, but I'm sure they're out there. As an alternative to saying "go find info", how's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDiecphUk8 ?
I just gave it a quick skip through, but the guy seems to know the correct approach.
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#58I don't think this applies to Duracell or Energizer alkaline batteries unfortunately :( Of course reading the article they are talking about Lithium Ion batteries.
I would just buy some Panasonic eneloops(NiMH - not an ad, just the battery I have went with after researching this quite a bit) whenever you need to buy alkaline batteries. They are about twice as expensive but are rechargeable 2000+ times, hold their charge for over a year, and don't degrade very much. Eventually all of your devices will have eneloops in them and you will stop buying batteries altogeher.
NiMH have 1.2v instead of 1.5. That ist sometimes a problem for cheaper devices that don't have a good voltage regulator. For example Flashlights are notably dimmer.
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#59That's not the price of batteries in general, that's the price of Li-Ion batteries. Were Li-Ion batteries mass produced in 1991?
The other commenter says that they were first introduced as a commercial product in 1991.
According to Wikipedia, they were preceded by two years by the first commercially-available nickel-metal hydride cells in 1989, so that would be an interesting point of comparison. Also nickel-cadmium and lead-acid have been around for a very long time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93metal_hydride_b...
Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was under the impression that mixing and matching cells (by model or by age/number of charge cycles used) can be sketchy. For example, if you have a very heavily used battery in series with new battery, everything may look okay externally, but you may end up over-discharging the older battery. What are your thoughts on this? Haven't had any issues? Or do you take steps to mitigate it?
Since he mostly talked about having them in parallel, this might not be an issue for him. I also think a bms can solve that issue
Yes, I can confirm. I use them only in parallel, and they usually come from the same battery pack.
A series connection would require extra care to select them for identical characteristics, and the use of a BMS to keep them balanced, avoiding the strongest ones to discharge at reversed polarity through the weakest ones, which would be a recipe for disasters. BMS circuits however can't do miracles; too different cells shouldn't be used together anyway.