No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal • Hacker News Board

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#211

Post by quacked » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #147

quacked wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't even go that far. We have to remember where this information is coming from. This is the U.S. Military. We don't have "pilot confirmation", we have files, transcripts, and audio that are allegedly pilot confirmation. Given the amount of evidence released so far, which seems more likely? - Alien civilization - Some other form of hyper-advanced technology - The U.S. Military and/or various U.S. intelligence…

Well, you've gotta dig but these reports now by the US military are highly similar to other reports that have leaked out over the decades from on-the-record military officers from the US and other states. The reason this is a noteworthy topic now all of a sudden is precisely because the US military is making these claims - the material claims are not new but have been brushed off for the usual reasons.

I definitely can't claim to know anything, but I would have a very hard time believing that other claims that are similar to these aren't part of a wider agenda.

To be clear, I'm fairly conspiracy-friendly. I am just very skeptical of this new tech angle.

More reports from states that have obviously opposed the US would definitely make me think more about the veracity of the leaked "evidence".

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#212

Post by userulluipeste » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

lazide wrote: post #48

komaromy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> aliens being here would imply FTL is possible Why? There are plenty of stars within a sub-light-speed radius since events that could've announced us to the galaxy: advent of radio, first nuclear tests, etc.

The sheer timescales and energy levels involved with all known methods of transportation is what makes it unlikely - at least for life on the timescales we live on. The odds someone is interested enough to spend truly mind boggling amounts of energy (literally moving hundreds of mountains worth) and hundred of years to check us out after one of those events - and not even say hi - is low. That they are also so close…

"The odds someone is interested enough to spend truly mind boggling amounts of energy (literally moving hundreds of mountains worth) and hundred of years to check us out after one of those events - and not even say hi - is low. That they are also so close - also low."

How could one even begin to make that kind of reasoning? Then the conclusion estimating the low probability is based on what? If I'd have to guess, I'd say otherwise - once a reasonably developed civilization (Kardashev type II and above) gets access to colossal amount of energy, there aren't that many things worth spending it (and attention in general) for. Life may or may not be plentiful around in the universe (it occured relatively shortly after Earth formation), but I'd bet sentient life is orders of magnitude more scarce, considering that it took billions for it to develop on Earth. That alone would make potential cradles for sentient life to be very interesting destinations to check once in a while. To provide here a relatable example, let's imagine a mostly desert continent, with a community living somewhere on its coast. At one point they develop enough capabilities to safely venture out in the desert and to make long journeys. How interested would they be in revisiting some oasis where they encountered some earthworms and small plants, and how interested would they be in revisiting a place (even across the continent, if that is what takes) with apes which happened to also exhibit some signs of primitive engineering?

P.S.: With all that, I still hope we're alone within a large enough vicinity, so we won't have to deal with anyone else for as long as our species exists.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#213

Post by booleandilemma » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #32

They exist. They are real. They aren't ours. They aren't an adversary's, because a) the military would never admit it if that were possible and b) if it were the case the adversary would have already taken over the world. There's no evidence they were made by aliens, leprechauns, or ghosts. But there's evidence they were made. Not that they are swamp gas or funny clouds. So lets get past that, and realize there's som…

They exist. They are real. They aren't ours.

Strong words for what’s essentially a blurry black dot on a grainy black and white video.

It’s 2021, until we see a clear video of an actual vehicle that looks like something other than a blurry smudge I’m not believing anything.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#214

Post by ttonkytonk » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #168

generalizations wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of filters they've passed through without destroying themselves suggests that they've overcome tribalism. We can't know that - once you can spread to multiple planets, even planet-killer tech isn't an extinction-level event. > selective pressure towards tribal conflict Over thousands, or millions of years; not only that, but you have to have selective pressure against tribalism to actually remove the ins…

"even planet-killer tech isn't an extinction-level event." We're talking about probabilities. You're right that a civilization that has violent tendencies may not self-destruct since it may turn out that the destructive potential of future technology is confined to the capacity of city-scale destruction instead of solar-system-scale destruction. Or they may escape their host planet quickly and diversify before nukes…

What is reproductive capital?

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#215

Post by restalis » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

teilo wrote: post #196

Once it is granted that the objects and their detectable properties are real, and not illusions, there are really only a few possibilities. 1) Advanced and highly secretive technology developed by some government. 2) The same, but by a group within our own government, but off-budget and highly secret (think NSA in the bad old days when it didn't officially exist). 3) The same, but by a non-governmental group of indus…

"If the objects are real, and (big) if they are violating the laws of physics as we know them, that means that our understanding of physics needs to be revised. Physics is physics."

One little issue here though. The current understanding of physics is the result of study performed on inert systems, under total (or big enough degree of) scientists' control. Areas which aren't easy to be subjected to experiments are avoided. (Among other things, choosing something like that would pose a high risk of loose speculation on the limited data sets at hand, and an even higher risk of results staying unverifiable by independent parties, both reflecting badly on the scientists involved.) When confronted with something hardly explainable like UFO reports, the easy way out is denial or questioning the source and information veracity.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#216

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #190

WalterBright wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has failed to hold any predictive properties And so has the UFOs are aliens theory. CNN isn't just reporting it, they're reporting it as credible . In fact, a "sizable chunk of the public" being interested in this is precisely because CNN (and some others) are reporting it as credible. Welcome to CNN creating news, not just reporting it.

Again, and I don't mean to be patronizing but this really should not be confusing, it's the source of the data. Is CNN irresponsible for presenting it as credible? I mean, I don't know, maybe, but the source isn't a quack from Twitter, it's congress and the military. What is CNN supposed to do, title their headline as "A bunch of bozos in the military think aliens are real LOLOLOL!!!!"?

> Is CNN irresponsible for presenting it as credible?

Yes. Does CNN brag about following the science? Yes. Is CNN following the science here? Nope.

> What is CNN supposed to do, title their headline as "A bunch of bozos in the military think aliens are real LOLOLOL!!!!"?

For news that's not credible, yes. That is, if CNN itself wants to have any credibility.

For some perspective, CNN pretty much labeled everything the President of the United States said in the last 5 years as a lie. They're hardly afraid of doing that.

> I don't mean to be patronizing

You shouldn't believe everything authority figures tell you. UFOs are aliens should be pegging your bullshit detector.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#217

Post by tombert » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #216

tombert wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, and I don't mean to be patronizing but this really should not be confusing, it's the source of the data. Is CNN irresponsible for presenting it as credible? I mean, I don't know, maybe, but the source isn't a quack from Twitter, it's congress and the military. What is CNN supposed to do, title their headline as "A bunch of bozos in the military think aliens are real LOLOLOL!!!!"?

> Is CNN irresponsible for presenting it as credible? Yes. Does CNN brag about following the science? Yes. Is CNN following the science here? Nope. > What is CNN supposed to do, title their headline as "A bunch of bozos in the military think aliens are real LOLOLOL!!!!"? For news that's not credible, yes. That is, if CNN itself wants to have any credibility. For some perspective, CNN pretty much labeled everything th…

> You shouldn't believe everything authority figures tell you. UFOs are aliens should be pegging your bullshit detector.

I'm sorry but I really do not know how many times I need to repeat this, but as I have already said twice to you now: I do not think they are aliens. It does trigger my "bullshit detector." I never once claimed I believed in in extraterrestrials visiting earth, I never claimed that the videos congress is talking about are aliens. I feel like you're trying to group me in with morons like Alex Jones or Art Bell or something, and that's extremely dishonest, and since this is the second time you've done this in this thread, I have to think you're doing it on purpose.

Again, and I really want to make this clear, unambiguous, and easy to parse: I DO NOT THINK THE UFOS ARE ALIENS. It's probably a compression artifact or a drone or something. Please, please, please stop trying to put words into my mouth.

> Yes. Does CNN brag about following the science? Yes. Is CNN following the science here? Nope.

I'm hardly a fan of CNN but after about two decades of watching them on/off, I cannot recall a single instance of them "bragging" about "following the science". Admittedly I haven't watched it every day so it's possible I missed something.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#218

Post by fighterpilot » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 8:01 AM UTC

ttonkytonk wrote: post #214

fighterpilot wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even planet-killer tech isn't an extinction-level event." We're talking about probabilities. You're right that a civilization that has violent tendencies may not self-destruct since it may turn out that the destructive potential of future technology is confined to the capacity of city-scale destruction instead of solar-system-scale destruction. Or they may escape their host planet quickly and diversify before nukes…

What is reproductive capital?

I mean competition between the gender that can have 100+ children with a 5-minute time investment (men) for the gender that can have at most 10 children with a 9-month time investment (women).

From the genetic perspective of a male, a female's ability to reproduce is a scarce, excludable resource that they need for their genetic fitness and other men stand as roadblocks to obtaining that resource. That makes violence and conflict a valid way to improve the competitive odds of male A over male B.

In a future where gestation occurs outside of the womb in some bioengineered setup, that genetic pressure to compete between men will be lessened, which will be a force for peace.

I don't mean to talk about groups of people as resources, but for this topic in particular, since we're talking from the perspective of unconscious genes, I think it offers the most clarity.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#219

Post by user-the-name » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 9:48 AM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #75

user-the-name wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have of anything having any radar signature?

Video released this week shows radar contact.

It also shows basically nothing else whatsoever. I could be literally anything.

Re: No evidence UFOs are alien craft, unclassified US intelligence report to reveal

#220

Post by tzs » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #159

gfodor wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly possible to disprove they are alien. By not ruling it out, it's saying there is no present evidence to reject that hypothesis, which is a meaningful thing to say. It would be trivially rejectable if we had any intel it was another country, for example.

You have no evidence that Joe Biden is not a pod person. Is that a meaningful thing to say?

Actually, I have evidence that Joe Biden is a pod person!

The statement "Joe Biden is a pod person" is logically equivalent to the statement "All things that are not pod persons are not Joe Biden".

I've examined tens of thousands of things that were not pod persons and none of them were Joe Biden, thus providing evidence for the second statement, and hence for the first statement.

(For those curious about this kind of evidence, it is called the Raven paradox [1]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox