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There are no results for tank man

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Re: There are no results for tank man

#421

Post by floatingatoll »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #115
ilamont wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dang 27 minutes ago [–] [flagged] on submissions nearly always means users flagged it. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#flag https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27397158

Right. Why haven't those users been banned, and the article restored? Dang is actually quite effective as and administrator, but this seems pretty clear-cut abuse of the flagging system. I don't expect perfection, dang might have not been aware of it yet, but I do expect that some action will be taken on hot-button topics when surfaced.

dang says elsethread, paraphrased, 'we evaluated that flagged post and figured it was probably legitimately flagged, but after users contacted us^ to say it should be unflagged, so we listened to them and unflagged it'.

Good intentions often lead to bad outcomes. The mods have the best possible (and still imperfect) judgement of all of us, and they misread the circumstances, same as those users who flagged it. So they'd have to ban themselves right along with everyone else, which would be the end of HN.

That the actions of other users ended up being reversed is no excuse to demand that they be banned, especially on topics where agreement will never be reached^^ by the community — such as Apple, China, or Firefox. Please be more cautious about demanding bans of those whose actions result in disagreeable outcomes, even if you doubt their intentions.

^ Using a post or comment is a terribly inefficient way to go about doing this, but it certainly does tend to produce maximum-drama results. I don't think anyone should be banned for taking that approach — maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods! — but I'm exhausted of otherwise good-standing and high-karma users using posts and comments to bring things to their attention. I'm also glad to see the thread and discussion here, which contradicts my own viewpoint. I have no easy resolution for that cognitive dissonance.

^^ Please don't call for me to be banned if you disagree with my reply. However, if you feel I've violated the guidelines in some way, I do of course encourage you to let the mods know using the footer Contact link.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#422

Post by Sebb767 »

rllearneratwork wrote: post #365
jakeva wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know DDG uses Bing's search index. What exactly is their value proposition over Bing then?

neither did I - not using DDG again. Back to Google :(

I don't think going back to Google because DDG is not large enough to have its own fully independent index is really the right play. Given their reputation and usually lax attitude towards censoring, I'd say this akin to a supply chain attack, not active censoring.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#423

Post by rsa25519 »

johnfernow wrote: post #190

Since these pages will likely be updated, here are the archived links as proof of this happening: https://web.archive.org/web/20210604192821/https://www.bing.... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604180506/https://images.se... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604194355/https://www.ecosi... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604194336/https://search.ao... Some people probably think "nobody uses Bing", but Bing powers a l…

Also try searching "journalist in blue" via the default (not image) article search on Bing. It lacks the relevant results found on Google or DuckDuckGo.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#424

Post by regnull »

y04nn wrote: post #261
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't have a search engine in China, and Bing does have a search engine in China.

Should not Bing have a separate/dedicated search engine in China? Does Bing has to censure US/World results from a well know fact to be allowed to operate in China? Because I have some difficulties to understand why Bing is censuring such fact outside the Great Firewall of China.

Or maybe not censure it at all? Maybe say "Thanks, but no thanks" to the CCP?

Re: There are no results for tank man

#425

Post by Sebb767 »

regnull wrote: post #406
lilyball wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply. The fact that it’s the anniversary would easily explain why they’re making sure it’s censored properly in China, the human error is that it’s being censored outside of China.

That's a perfectly good explanation, apart from the fact that an American company does censorship for Chinese government. If it's "inside China" doesn't make it better.

Well, an American company not doing censorship for inside China will not stay inside China very long.

I personally dislike this a lot, as well, but I can't blame a company for not taking a fall on what is arguably a political decision.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#426

Post by Dah00n »

thih9 wrote: post #340
jakeva wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know DDG uses Bing's search index. What exactly is their value proposition over Bing then?

No profiling. > DuckDuckGo distinguishes itself from other search engines by not profiling its users and by showing all users the same search results for a given search term. Also note that DDG doesn’t just rely on Bing. > DuckDuckGo's results are a compilation of "over 400" sources, including Yahoo! Search BOSS, Wolfram Alpha, Bing, Yandex, its own web crawler (the DuckDuckBot) and others. Source: https://en.m.wikip…

>showing all users the same search results for a given search term.

I'm definitely not seeing the same search results from DDG on my PC as on my phone (using different networks). So they do show different results based on something.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#427

Post by root_axis »

kian wrote: post #45

@dang, I think we need an explanation for why Tank Man-related content on Hacker News has been disappearing all day. I usually trust HN to be a bastion of free speech, and if there isn't some kind of proportionate response here, I don't believe myself or many others here will be able to see it that way going forward. EDIT: Thank you for your response, dang. Hacker News is a special place, which is why we have respond…

HN is not a "bastion of free speech", one of its most distinguishing features is the extensive moderation implemented to suppress spam, trolls, and rancor. A platform like reddit or even Twitter is far more welcoming to diverse discussion than HN, but this is an intentional decision by the site operators to maintain a certain threshold of discussion quality.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#428

Post by [deleted] »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #253
ALittleLight wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 6th result for "tank guy" for me. "china protest man tank" also gets it. "Tiananmen square" doesn't autocomplete on bing either, for "some reason"... It's surprising and shameful to me that Microsoft would be censoring so brazenly even in US search results. Also embarrassing on a technical level that their censorship is this bad. It's also pretty bad at image search compared to Google (compare Google Images…

I, for one, am glad that this particular Microsoft censorship is global in nature for all to see. A lot of people say China's internet censorship doesn't matter because it's mainly/just within their own borders, and anyone in China can and does just use a VPN to get outside. While the latter might be true, it misses the point - China is doing a great job of making self-censorship about a number of their sensitive top…

[deleted]

Re: There are no results for tank man

#429

Post by jedberg »

Sebb767 wrote: post #409
jedberg wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man this comment give me PTSD from the early reddit days. If you read nothing else in this comment: You're doing a great job solving a hard problem, keep it up! > well, the reason that's not done yet is because moderation takes 90% of my time, answering emails takes the other 90% of my time, and counteracting abuse takes the other 90% of my time. So much this. There just isn't enough time with a small staff. > Most h…

> They focus on using propaganda to control individuals and then let those people make a mess of social media. There was an interesting report in German TV, where they analyzed a paper looking for bot patterns in Twitter. That paper named some offending accounts, so what they did was PM one - and it turned out that it simply belonged to a pensioner with strong political opinions and a lot of free time. Interesting to…

> If I may ask, where did you encounter so much heavy moderation?

A couple places. The one that bothered me most was that titles would get changed without asking or notification to the poster. Sometimes they would get changed to something I didn't think made sense, and then I looked like I had done that, since there was no indication that it was changed. I guess I'm still not a huge fan when it happens to me, but I see why it happens.

I also didn't like having my comments detached or cooled. If you reply to a top level comment with a good comment that happens to generate a flame war under you, it will get detached from the top into it's own thread, and that just felt weird because it made it look like I made a non-sequiter top comment and also stifled discussion (which was the goal of course).

Also if you make a comment that gets a ton of votes but is perceived as off-topic, they will put a flag on your comment that makes it fall in the rankings. So based on the points and time it should be up at the top, but instead will be near the bottom, sometimes under the comments with negative scores.

Lastly, I have dead comments turned on, and I would see dead comments that I didn't think deserved to be dead. Eventually I got enough karma that I could vouch, which helped.

Those were my main moderation complaints. I still don't particularly like when it happens to me, but usually when I see it happen to other people I think, "yeah that makes sense".

Re: There are no results for tank man

#430

Post by xster »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #153
dang wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. You have no idea the sort of pressure that users with minority perspectives because of their national/ethnic backgrounds are under on this majority-Western forum. People have literally been hounded off this site after getting attacked for this. Is that the kind of community you, or any of us, want to be part of? Of course it is not. Therefore, don't include swipes lik…

With all due respect, I disagree. This conversation is specifically about a nation exerting censorship across the web. It is not unreasonable to think those censorship efforts would extend to other sites. Moreover, I did not mark the primary thrust of the comment as a nationalistic attack. I took it as an observation that a motivated minority (or a nation-state actor) could game the system to mute a conversation by w…

> To be clear, I hope Chinese users feel welcome here.

I don't doubt you believe that too. But as far as I can tell, it's what people in western forums believe too as long as those Chinese people don't opine in a way that's similar to the government that 95% of them support (otherwise they're bots, coherced or brainwashed, or otherwise not full humans).

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur...

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