China allows couples to have three children • Hacker News Board

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#201

Post by csa » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

dan-robertson wrote: post #50

stefan_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another graph here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China#/media/F... Which shows a massive male surplus particularly in the young demographics, way larger than you would biologically expect. How can we claim this policy has no effect if clearly people are still killing female infants?

Wasn’t their some policy saying that rural mothers could have a second child if their first was a girl? If they each had the maximum number of children, it would lead to an average of about 1 boy and 0.75 girls per rural mother.

> Wasn’t their some policy saying that rural mothers could have a second child if their first was a girl?

Yes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Child_Policy

“Peasants” (their term, not mine) and minorities* could have more than one. It was very, very common. Apparently half of the country was effectively under a two-child policy.

* There are 55 recognized minority groups in China (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China).

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#202

Post by officialjunk » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #11

There is some question on whether the one-child policy was even needed. If you look at a graph of "children per mother" chart before and after the original policy went into effect, it's quite evident that rates were dropping for more than a decade beforehand: * https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2016/october/china... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birth_rate_in_China.svg * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O…

does this look like a sustainable world population growth curve? our resources are not increasing exponentially. and china's contribution towards this exponential growth has been decreased significantly as result of their policies.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population?country=CHN~OW...

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#203

Post by Amezarak » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

mcculley wrote: post #107

hutzlibu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you raise a unreported child in china? How would that work? With no papers at all and the communist buerocrats also really likes paper about everything. ?

I am amused at the phrase "communist buerocrats [sic]". I live in the United States, where a particular bastard hybrid of socialism and crony capitalism requires that every birth be well documented by bureaucrats.

You don't have to have a birth certificate in the US, but the average life will be very difficult without it.

https://gazette.com/news/born-in-the-usa-without-a-shred-of-...

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#204

Post by thefounder » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #193

thefounder wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like in China it's even a law[1] that old people use to take advantage of their children. Just because it's a "tradition" doesn't make it good. It's been a "tradition" to beat your wife and children as well in many parts of the world or even worse. If you are miserable why would you like to make your children's life miserable as well? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7422934/

When you're in a hole: stop digging. Really, this has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Bringing spousal and child abuse into this is ridiculous. And even in the affluent West it isn't all that rare to find children caring for their elders: it's perfectly ok, even if there is a tendency to stick old people in old folks homes and to try to forget about them even though they are still alive that definitely isn't…

"Tradition" is often used to justify all kind of behaviours(many times abusive behaviours) so I don't think my remark is that misplaced. I'm not a fan of gerontocracy "traditions"/laws regardless if they originate in China, Italy or the U.S either.

I would not ask someone to take care of myself if I'm unable to do so. I think it's fairer to make sure the world you leave behind is prosperous and equitable enough instead to rely on close relatives or invisible powers to take care of you when you innevitable become old.

Make sure you get paid well enough during your youth so that you can live off your own savings/pension when you become a zombie.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#205

Post by jokethrowaway » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #104

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any other explanations for the massive male surplus?

Is adoption murder? Abortion? Why is it easier to imagine that Chinese people murder infants than it is to imagine literally any other scenario? Why is it easier to assume that a massive sex imbalance is the result members of a particular group of people being psychopaths rather than the result of some systemic cause? Hmm.

Yes, abortion is murder and a new human being is formed at conception. It's just convenient to call it something else not to appear monsters.

If a girl were adopted in China she would still show up in this dataset. I haven't heard about foreign adoption being popular in China (like it would be in eg. Africa), so the unbalance is likely to be the result of aborting/killing baby girls.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#206

Post by officialjunk » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

bruiseralmighty wrote: post #200

I find it a bit odd how accepted a child mandate has become when it comes from the CCP with the global community. For instance, it seems that a large reason that China is hesitant to lift any limits whatsoever is a belief that rural women will have large families and urban women will not and that this would be 'unfair'. This cant help but feel like a eugenics argument about not wanting to swamp the gene pool with 'lo…

the world summary of the policy is not the whole truth. you could always have more than one child, but there's a tax. so you get one child for "free" and the others you have to pay a tax. there are countless families with multiple siblings of all generations, even in cities.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#207

Post by baybal2 » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #94

infinity0 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not a totalitarian regime - you shouldn't believe all the propaganda out there, you should actually go there yourself and you'll find that you can live your life quite normally and happily. China's identity isn't based on a single ethnic identity - the various restrictions (such as the now-3-child-policy, and permanent immigration between cities) apply to everyone. In fact ethnic minorities generally get pre…

I lived in China, in Shanghai, near the French Concession, speak Mandarin, read 汉字，(not fluently, but HSK5-6), and have been to pretty much every province in China. About as privileged as you can be as an ex-pat, and I can still say, IMHO, it's pretty totalitarian. Totalitarian: "relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state." Is China centraliz…

I see very naive young people from then West coming to China with weird expectations.

Such people shout "There is no Democracy in America!," and then decide to run to China for god knows what reason.

Coming to China for purpose other than to make quick cash, and run will leave you very disappointed.

China is really what it is.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#208

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

ackfoobar wrote: post #187

milofeynman wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Despite full Maoist Communism in China, descendants of former landlords and rich peasants today earn 16% more than descendants of others. > They couldn't inherit wealth from grandparents, parents were barred from university in Cultural Revolution, but they inherited something https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1301012672138285059

Just because one was barred from university or wealth doesn’t mean that the political entrenchment was eliminated. If I was a wealthy family that rubbed elbows with other wealthy families, such that all my family friends were from wealthy families, any success I gather would also have me nepotize my family friends into whatever companies I make and whatever government success I achieve.

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#209

Post by faitswulff » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

jokethrowaway wrote: post #205

faitswulff wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is adoption murder? Abortion? Why is it easier to imagine that Chinese people murder infants than it is to imagine literally any other scenario? Why is it easier to assume that a massive sex imbalance is the result members of a particular group of people being psychopaths rather than the result of some systemic cause? Hmm.

Yes, abortion is murder and a new human being is formed at conception. It's just convenient to call it something else not to appear monsters. If a girl were adopted in China she would still show up in this dataset. I haven't heard about foreign adoption being popular in China (like it would be in eg. Africa), so the unbalance is likely to be the result of aborting/killing baby girls.

Moving the goalposts. It certainly is not "killing female infants."

Re: China allows couples to have three children

#210

Post by faitswulff » Mon, May 31, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #195

faitswulff wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is adoption murder? Abortion? Why is it easier to imagine that Chinese people murder infants than it is to imagine literally any other scenario? Why is it easier to assume that a massive sex imbalance is the result members of a particular group of people being psychopaths rather than the result of some systemic cause? Hmm.

Infanticide doesn’t mean psychopaths. It’s been practiced, and I think super bad, by many cultures. I don’t think that means the culture is full of psychopaths. Also, I assumed the reason there was no evidence posted for the Chinese infanticide claim is that it’s extremely common and has been known for a long time. I just assumed everyone was aware. It doesn’t mean people killing literal babies, but does mean stuff l…

This is the only reply worth reading. Even then, abortion is not infanticide.