Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime • Hacker News Board

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#251

Post by santiagobasulto » Sat, May 29, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

Some time ago i listened to a respected Argentina scientist (that lives and works in France) saying something: “we can’t confirm nor deny anything about COVID, given the poor quality of scientific procedure we follow in testing”

He was complaining of lack of scientific rigorousity with testing (at least in France) and he compared it to the “behind the scenes” of a restaurant’s kitchen.

For example, he was saying that the “informal” rate of contamination of tests were off the charts, but surprisingly, nobody was doing a thorough, official contamination analysis.

What I’m saying with all this is that: your friend thinks she had COVID twice. Or even, her doctor thinks so. But it’s hard to trust anything with our given situation.

PS: I’m not saying she didn’t have it twice. It might be possible. It just sucks how bad we’ve been at science these past 2 years and how easily we’ve been overwhelmed by “operative” tasks.

Edit: his name is Pablo Goldschmidt[0] and he works in France (not in the UK as I originally stated). Here's the interview (in spanish, also WARNING, the site sucks and is full of ads): https://marcelolongobardi.cienradios.com/pablo-goldschmidt-l...

[0] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pablo-Goldschmidt

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#252

Post by vmception » Sat, May 29, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

pengaru wrote: post #245

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

I thought it was sort of the other way around; that your immune system is keying into some fairly random and subjective set of dna features on the specific viral strain you've been infected with. But that with the mRNA vaccines, your body is being explicitly taught about the spike protein, nothing more, nothing less. So provided any future infection employs a spike protein, you have immunity. The question is, what ar…

Its unlikely to evolve an infection mechanism besides the spike protein. There will be plenty of mutant evolutionary deadends that live and die in a few days.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#253

Post by timr » Sat, May 29, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

takeda wrote: post #249

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

Seems like it is the other way, at least according to his paper[1]: > Previously infected individuals developed higher Ab titers to the vaccine than those who have not been previously exposed. These results indicate that mRNA vaccination rapidly induces a much stronger and broader Ab response than SARS-CoV-2 infection. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v4

The fact that previously infected people have higher titers to the vaccine implies nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine -- it implies that the human immune system works, and recognizes the spike protein when it is re-introduced. Extrapolating from this to conclude that the protection is therefore better is an unsupported leap. The authors are trying to piggyback on previous work that claims that antibody levels correlate with immunity, but there's a huge difference between someone who has never had Covid, and someone who has.

The abstract does say that vaccinated people have higher titers than naturally immune people, and this can be considered evidence:

> mRNA vaccination induced much higher Ab levels especially against the RBD domain and significant cross-reactivity against SARS RBD and S1 was also observed.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#254

Post by jhugo » Sat, May 29, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #3

mactavish88 wrote: post #2

Does anybody have any ideas as to what this means for people who've had COVID and then get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines? If not, is anyone studying this?

Probably that the vaccine is somewhat irrelevant: though that's up for grabs since what your body targets vs. what the vaccine targets will be subtly different. I'm more interested that this means that quite likely, COVID-19 will be eradicated: with not many advantageous mutation pathways, and if vaccines are conferring immunity forever, it's pretty much going to be burned out of the population one way or the other.

By saying it will quite likely be eradicated, you’re assuming herd_immunity_threshold% vaccination is achieved, aren’t you?

There are countries that are yet to achieve even 1% and some populations are likely to never achieve the threshold for immunity in that population.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#255

Post by cdolan » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

loveistheanswer wrote: post #189

It almost seems like a lot of people don't want the data to indicate that natural immunity is strong and long lasting, even though the data shows that reinfection is extemely rare. Similar to how so many people have been unwilling to even consider a lab leak was a possibility, until just now it seems, because that idea was heresy to the orthodox dogma that ordained Scientists are Saviors. Humans have equated sickness…

I appreciate the fact you said this and find it ironic you are being downvoted for this heresy!

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#256

Post by hellbannedguy » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #17

mactavish88 wrote: post #2

Does anybody have any ideas as to what this means for people who've had COVID and then get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines? If not, is anyone studying this?

There's some evidence that a second dose of mRNA vaccine isn't necessary if you were infected with Covid. >People who have already had confirmed covid-19 might only need a single dose of a mRNA vaccine, two small studies have indicated. Two weeks after a single dose of vaccine, people who had previously had covid-19 had antibody concentrations that were as high, or up to 10 times higher, than the levels seen in uninf…

There was a similar, or same study published by Nature I saw here a few weeks ago.

I would have happily skipped the second Pfizer shot if the CDC said it was ok.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#257

Post by ultralite » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

ppljudge wrote: post #88

And every new study like this confirms we didn’t know enough about it to propose solutions like “herd immunity”

Isn't this the sort of study and conclusion that would give weight to "herd immunity"?

To you, is there any study/conclusion that would allow us to propose solutions like "herd immunity"?

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#258

Post by ultralite » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

loveistheanswer wrote: post #189

It almost seems like a lot of people don't want the data to indicate that natural immunity is strong and long lasting, even though the data shows that reinfection is extemely rare. Similar to how so many people have been unwilling to even consider a lab leak was a possibility, until just now it seems, because that idea was heresy to the orthodox dogma that ordained Scientists are Saviors. Humans have equated sickness…

Natural immunity was used as a justification for some societal responses, particularly by some on one side of the political spectrum.

Thus, some of those on the opposite side will interpret strong natural immunity to COVID-19 as a political loss.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#259

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #253

takeda wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it is the other way, at least according to his paper[1]: > Previously infected individuals developed higher Ab titers to the vaccine than those who have not been previously exposed. These results indicate that mRNA vaccination rapidly induces a much stronger and broader Ab response than SARS-CoV-2 infection. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v4

The fact that previously infected people have higher titers to the vaccine implies nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine -- it implies that the human immune system works, and recognizes the spike protein when it is re-introduced. Extrapolating from this to conclude that the protection is therefore better is an unsupported leap. The authors are trying to piggyback on previous work that claims that antibody le…

[deleted]

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#260

Post by mrtesthah » Sat, May 29, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

>So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.

There have been several studies that suggest vaccination provides stronger immunity to mutations. Here's one titled Vaccine-induced immunity provides more robust heterotypic immunity than natural infection to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern:

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-226857/v1