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Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

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Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#241

Post by threatripper »

Sharlin wrote: post #36
Closi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully the mutations will slow over time - the mutations at the moment may be the 'easy' ones.

The various non-novel corona- and rhinoviruses that cause common cold don't seem to have had any problems playing catch with the human immune system for who knows how many thousand years. SARS-CoV-2 is probably more likely than not to just become a new member of the family of "domestic" human pathogens that we learn to live with.

"learning to live with it" includes filtering out those who can't learn fast enough.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#242

Post by anoncake »

dustinmoris wrote: post #239
anonymousDan wrote: post #16

As someone who had COVID 6 months ago and is currently awaiting the result of a PCR test I hope this is true!

Neither the vaccine nor a previous infection will prevent you from catching the virus again, but it will prevent you from falling ill which is all that really matters.

You'll obviously get some virus in your body, but a lot less because most of it (hopefully) gets destroyed before it can reproduce.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#243

Post by kokx »

camgunz wrote: post #218
beagle3 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most prolific by far variant factories are apparently immunocompromised individuals, including those vaccinated - which harbor infection for months and a weak immune system - which lets the virus optimize against weak humans, in the same way the traditional vaccines lets the immune system optimize against a weak virus. (From memory, don’t have a link handy)

Yeah I mean, we're (presumably) both doing some armchair virology, but I buy that if you're immunocompromised that you can't fight off the virus, and thus the virus succeeds in turning you into a virus factory until you die. That said, I don't think that's an argument against non-immunocompromised people getting vaccinated. It's like me saying "don't touch the toaster if it were just on, you'll get burned" and you re…

It is a great argument that non-immunocompromised people should get vaccinated. If non-immunocompromised people are vaccinated, the probability that immunocompromised people get infected gets smaller, thus causing less variants.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#244

Post by Fomite »

rsj_hn wrote: post #74
mehphp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you _did_ catch covid so being careful isn't always enough. I don't think it's emotional or unreasonable for your family to require the vaccine before you visit. Also, I'm not suggesting that you will "kill everyone" by not getting the vaccine, but it really isn't just about you and that you personally will probably recover. Do you think it's a reasonable thing for most people to take your stance and not get vacc…

> Do you think it's a reasonable thing for most people to take your stance and not get vaccinated? As with any other disease, it is reasonable (and expected) for everyone who had covid to not get vaccinated, given that the immunity you get from having the disease is always better than what you'd get from a vaccine. That this is even considered controversial by some people just goes to show you how far our science edu…

"As with any other disease, it is reasonable (and expected) for everyone who had covid to not get vaccinated, given that the immunity you get from having the disease is always better than what you'd get from a vaccine."

This is actively untrue.

See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4813740/ vs. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29029053/ for a non-COVID example.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#245

Post by pengaru »

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

I thought it was sort of the other way around; that your immune system is keying into some fairly random and subjective set of dna features on the specific viral strain you've been infected with.

But that with the mRNA vaccines, your body is being explicitly taught about the spike protein, nothing more, nothing less. So provided any future infection employs a spike protein, you have immunity. The question is, what are the odds that sars-cov2 would evolve an entirely different mechanism from the spike protein? My impression was that's pretty unlikely, and why there's so much confidence the mRNA vaccines are robust against variants.

I know absolutely nothing about this subject and frankly am unqualified to even participate in this discussion. I'm just hoping someone who is can clarify/correct my understanding if it's totally misinformed.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#246

Post by zamalek »

beagle3 wrote: post #213
zamalek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines are effective against the spike protein, which is what makes SARS-CoV-2 so virulent. In reality, there are many ways skin that cat, and there's no guarantee that the body chose the spike protein. From the article: > most of these participants still had memory B cells that recognize SARS-CoV-2 No matter how you slice it, you are playing 'Rona Roulette if you don't get vaccinated. The CDC also recommends g…

If the body cleared the virus, then what it chose is effective whether that’s the spike or the nucleocapsid. It is actually more likely to be robust than vaccine induced immunity. The claims about superiority of vaccine induced immunity that I’ve seen all rely on antibody counts, and in the very short term that may very well be true - but the importance of T-cells is not sufficiently well characterized to say it with…

... which hinges completely on the virus not evolving at all, which is outside of the realm of reality.

Evolving a new spike is extremely disadvantageous for the virus.

Widespread natural immunity is not enough to prevent a repeat of this this or next year, especially when we have evolutionary hotbeds in countries which could not (or would not) do anything to prevent the spread.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#247

Post by toolz »

mlyle wrote: post #236
toolz wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1st study says zero active virus beyond CT>32 and 2nd study shows 34ct is the cutoff for infectivity and that 2nd study also cites a 3rd study that ct>35 decreased to 8% active viruses All of those numbers are below 40ct - if this doesn't convince you that 40ct is the wrong number I don't know what to say - you've provided zero evidence that 40ct is beneficial and try to downplay extremely high false positives shown…

"Extremely high false positives"-- no, inability to culture from the specimens, which isn't the same thing as a false positive. Please stop conflating the two. It's a sensitivity vs. specificity issue, as I've said before, and I'm willing to listen to arguments on those grounds. As the studies you've cited show, the vast majority of positive samples become so before 30 cycles. Then there's these relatively few "weak…

This is just silly, if you reject the methodology used in these studies to determine effective CT thresholds then it's pretty pointless having a conversation with someone who refuses to do anything other than restate their opinion without providing and evidence that supports their opinions.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#248

Post by bsder »

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

> So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.

This is probably not true. But I don't know of any medical evidence one way or the other.

First, your innate immune system could clear the virus, at which point you have no immunity at all.

Second, your immune system could lock to some random piece of the virus that easily mutates.

Third, your immune system could lock on to some random piece that is common. Oops. Autoimmune problem incoming.

Fourth, your immune system could lock to some piece of the spike protein that mutates quickly (apparently the immune system "likes" 3 particular regions around the spike protein --one of which mutates quite freely).

With the vaccine, your immune system is primed to the spike protein and the particular region that is expressed in the vaccine. It's very targeted.

I had Covid, but I went and got the vaccine anyway for exactly these reasons.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#249

Post by takeda »

seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

Seems like it is the other way, at least according to his paper[1]:

> Previously infected individuals developed higher Ab titers to the vaccine than those who have not been previously exposed. These results indicate that mRNA vaccination rapidly induces a much stronger and broader Ab response than SARS-CoV-2 infection.

[1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v4

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#250

Post by randomopining »

koolba wrote: post #238
seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

What if you have the vaccine, and then get exposed to the actual virus? Would it be the best of all worlds as the existing antibodies would prevent a full on infection but your body would also learn more generalized attacks against the virus? Or would it not be enough exposure to warrant the latter?

That’s what I think and is why I actually wanted to get the virus 2+ weeks after vaccination.
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