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The media's lab leak fiasco

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451–460 of 736 posts

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#451

"The boy who cried wolf", comes to mind. If you spout a bunch of nonsense about Climate Change being a hoax, don't be too surprised when a lot of people start ignoring or even deriding the things you say. Even if the wolf does eventually show up.

This is the opposite lesson you should be taking away from this.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#452

"The boy who cried wolf", comes to mind. If you spout a bunch of nonsense about Climate Change being a hoax, don't be too surprised when a lot of people start ignoring or even deriding the things you say. Even if the wolf does eventually show up.

This is the opposite lesson you should be taking away from this.

Why?

I think that politicians have a responsibility to not tell obvious lies. If they do, then I'm going to stop paying attention to the things they say, and I'll tell everyone else to do the same.

If they eventually say something insightful, well, that's a shame, but they no longer have my attention.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember - people were called fascists + racists for mentioning or discussing the lab leak theory.

Remember, the discussion of the lab leak theory is strongly correlated with a rise in hate crimes against Asian-Americans. There were also lots of links made between the lab leak theory and needing to tighten immigration policies to keep out "undesirables".

Are we sure that was the lab leak theory, and not just the emergence of a novel pandemic disease in China? The kind of people who attack random Asians in the street don't need a lab leak to justify it: they just need the fact that the virus spread outward from Wuhan.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#454
post #347
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't found an animal host for SARS-CoV-2 yet, after more than 12 months. It took six months to find an animal host for SARS and less than a year for MERS. The incentive for the Chinese government to find a SARS-CoV-2 animal host is much much higher than for either of those viruses. Failure to find the host is not proof of lab origin, but the longer the search goes on unsuccessfully, the more the probabilities s…

We've already found animal hosts for SARS-COV2, be haven't found the origin animal. It took two years to find the bats as likely source and another twelve to find the specific species and location, the horseshoe bat. For MERS we only know that dromedary camels are a major reservoir host for MERS-CoV and an animal source of MERS infection in humans. The exact role of dromedaries in transmission of the virus and the ex…

AFAIK we have found that SARS-CoV-2 can infect certain animals but no-one has found it in any animals that are plausible candidates for the original zoonotic transfer. (If such candidates have been found, I'd like to learn about it!) For SARS and MERS we had identified candidates already by this stage.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#455

what happened to those scientists/lab reports saying their were fatalities in California as early as August/September 2019? The youtube accounts that mirrored it were all deleted and I've not seen a word on it since.

There has been an attempt by some researchers to determine when the first cases of covid were detected in wastewater samples. There are three known studies so far.

December 2019 in Italy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428442/

November 2019 in Brazil: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v...

March 2019 in Spain: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v...

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#456

Am I the only one who feels like this is mostly a non-issue. I feel like the case of if this came from a lab for from a market is mostly taking a political side against China - if it came from a lab, or for China - if it was naturally developed. If it came from a Chinese lab as part of a conscious effort of weaponizing a virus, sure, that's important, but I don't think anyone is saying that. If it came from a lab acc…

Ah yes, the good old narcissists prayer:

That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, that's not a big deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did, you deserved it

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#457
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of them. Even the ones of your enemies. Sometimes you need to know the other side’s angle to understand if you’re unknowingly biased.

Totally. Here's the thing: 95% of the time I see someone argue what you're arguing online, it's from someone who only believes completely false news sources (rather than biased).

Here’s the thing, no, they don’t.

You recently said this to me:

”Part-time Portlander here! You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please stop basing your worldview on Infowars talking points.”

I’ve obviously never seen anything produced by infowars and this was a dismissive epithet, doing exactly the problem described here. You’re one of them. And my point you were responding to was objectively true.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#458

I hate how it feels like there's such a "collective narrative" for everything now days with the internet. Whenever I talk to people about recent news stories in real life it feels like everyone is just repeating talking points they read online. Its like we've been absorbed into the internet consciousness and talking to a person is like talking to "the internet brain".

This isn't a "now" thing. Most people and even most policy makers can't fully digest such complicated topics so they rely on people they trust.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also systematic censorship and disinformation against prophylaxis and early treatment information, which could prevent millions of hospitalisations and deaths. [1] e.g. YouTube recently censored the Ivermectin Global Summit, in which doctors and scientists showed the overwhelming scientific evidence for Ivermectin from around the world. [2] 1. https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-relea... 2.…

A recently released meta—analysis from the British Medical Journal suggests that the evidence base for ivermectin’s efficacy in treating COVID-19 is low. https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111...

If you'll look carefully, you'll see that's a non peer-reviewed opinion piece.

That's a prime example of disinformation, and indeed the most reputable journals unfortunately play a role in it.

Just to rebut the first thing random thing I saw:

"An important controversial point to consider in any rationale is the 5 µM required concentration to reach the anti-SARS-CoV-2 action of ivermectin observed in vitro,17 which is much higher than 0.28 µM, the maximum reported plasma concentration achieved in vivo with a dose of approximately 1700 µg/kg (about nine times the FDA-approved dosification)"

They are bringing up the in-vitro studies initially done on monkey kidney cells, and then claiming that you'll need such a high dose in a clinical setting. The doses for prophylactic and early treatment are an order of magnitude lower (0.2mg/kg) [1], and in that dose it's safer than paracetamol.

"Ivermectin was generally well tolerated, with no indication of associated CNS toxicity for doses up to 10 times the highest FDA-approved dose of 0.2mg/kg." [2]

In my second link, there's a talk rebutting the in-vitro safety concerns in detail: [3]

There are over 50 studies showing that Ivermectin is effective, and more are coming in every day. [4]

1. https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-pl...

2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12362927/

3. https://player.vimeo.com/video/554350476?autoplay=1#t=4702

4. https://c19ivermectin.com/

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#460

Over the last several years, it's become clear to me what the large social media companies want to be: de facto world governments. They won't admit that, and you'll hear a lot of gab about algorithms and cooperation with various governments, but at heart it appears to me that this is cooperation with various governments as a government themselves. It's a negotiation among equals. We can provincially argue about who c…

That's a pretty bizarre take considering how incredibly narrow their authority is. The hottest hot takes on this topic all came from elected officials and second-rate professional media.
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