The media's lab leak fiasco • Hacker News Board

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#431

Post by bannedbannedb » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

HN fails yet again.

All the supposed intellectuals caught with their pants down. Of course you all will rationalize away the error, doublethink your way to some new comfort.

Go on and continue to believe the next lie told by big tech, medi, government officials.

Was the 2020 election fraudulent? Oh wait I can't say that, that's fake news right? Just like covid being from a lab? Oh wait? No,no don't worry, I'm the crazy one not you, you all are the very best and brightest tech minds to ever exist. Your controls were just a little imperfect, next time there will be no mistake.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#432

Post by coffeefirst » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

uvesten wrote: post #212

What the article forgets to mention is that there is a world power ( cough China cough ) which would use all its (social-) media manipulation skills and influence to make sure that the lab leak theory was written off as crazy conspiracy talk… Under those circumstances, and without a concerted effort by the US and other democracies to counter China’s preferred narrative, no wonder that the debate turned very lopsided.

Not to mention many of the early proponents were notorious conspiracy theorists, racists, and nut jobs who spoke with absolute certainty, cited virtually no evidence and clearly had no idea what they were talking about. Could they, in their wild speculation, been right about a few things? Sure, that’s always possible, but they didn’t actually know that at the time.

This isn’t a science or mainstream media problem; both require something resembling empirical evidence to make factual claims. It’s a problem of bullshitters, who can just stay stuff. If you want to be clear that they’re full of it, you run the risk that they actually guessed right.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#433

Post by XorNot » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #16

The media is so disappointing these days. A lot of people don't remember this, but the mainstream media outlets were actually playing down the coronavirus pandemic at the start. Then they attacked the travel ban to China. Then did a complete U-turn. Pelosi was dancing in the streets of Chinatown San Francisco to prove how safe and not racist she is. It seemed like they hated Trump and would fight anything he did. htt…

> Pelosi was dancing in the streets of Chinatown San Francisco to prove how safe and not racist she is.

Why does this keep coming up?

This was literally a problem at the time: a pandemic in China was resulting in a huge amount of local racism and ostracism of American Chinese descendants and expats, people who, by you know, being in a completely different country, weren't somehow magically more dangerous then anyone else.

The absolute most racist and non-sensical reaction people had to COVID-19 was to immediately decide that local asian people were immediately dangerous viral vectors.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#434

Post by bannedbannedb » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

Oh and I'll be auto dead. Can't let people who don't align to group think on HN express themselves. Be sure to destroy everything that doesn't align with your perfect world view.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#435

Post by gowld » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #379

edgyquant wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook already does this and people just claim it’s fake news being pushed by “the elite.”

Because much of it is fake news being pushed by the elite. Look at precisely what we're discussing: the lab leak scenario, which Facebook labeled with warnings (at best) or simply banned/deleted/removed (at worst). And now, the media establishment is doing some kind of re-think, and it turns out that while far from proven, a lab leak (which covers a variety of scenarios, most not involving any kind of "engineered" vi…

> but most people figure this stuff out in a reasonable manner.

That's getting tenuous. Fully 25% of the populace believe "alternative facts" that their Representatives claim are true, but those Representatives cite those very people as the source of truth! It's "citogenesis" in the real world!

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#436

Post by CiceroCiceronis » Fri, May 28, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

shaicoleman wrote: post #304

deadalus wrote: post #5

Reminder that Facebook and Twitter banned users for talking about the lab-leak theory. Youtube accounts also got demontized/banned.

There's also systematic censorship and disinformation against prophylaxis and early treatment information, which could prevent millions of hospitalisations and deaths. [1] e.g. YouTube recently censored the Ivermectin Global Summit, in which doctors and scientists showed the overwhelming scientific evidence for Ivermectin from around the world. [2] 1. https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-relea... 2.…

A recently released meta—analysis from the British Medical Journal suggests that the evidence base for ivermectin’s efficacy in treating COVID-19 is low.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111...

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#437

Post by wombatmobile » Fri, May 28, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #360

wombatmobile wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't said China is the same as USA. I’ve said China is a huge set of different interests. Can you see the difference between those two propositions? Apparently not, if you’re quoting one western account of one Chinese guys statement, and imaging that represents all of China monolithically.

China is more monolithic than the USA because uniformity is what their culture is structured to establish. In the West, we have an underlying belief that dissent and debate result in better decisions and more circumspect awareness of complicated situations. We tolerate insolence, dissent, and other unpleasant behaviors specifically because we know they serve a purpose. That doesn't happen with a top-down ("democratic…

Have you ever been to China? There are rich kids there with Lamborghinis and polo shirts. And families with iPads at MacDonalds. And peasants on bikes pulling rickshaws. And an amazing variety of vegetables. And steak Dianne. And lobster Thermidor. And aluminium siding salesmen. And scientists trying to cure malaria. And clerks who commute on Vespas. And gorgeous 18 year old women with legs as long as giraffes dancing in discos. And grandmothers who do Tai Chi in the park at dawn. And violin players. There are even people a lot like you there. And trains. And theatres. And fireplaces and haystacks. And poodles. And nurses who stay up all night. And newlyweds, optimistic for the future who are already saving to send their not yet new born babies to college. And industrial designers. And floor polishers. And bums who want a cigarette. And guys who think they are Bruce Lee. And pretzels. And red wine.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#438

Post by nescioquid » Fri, May 28, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

scottrogowski wrote: post #72

deadalus wrote: post #5

Reminder that Facebook and Twitter banned users for talking about the lab-leak theory. Youtube accounts also got demontized/banned.

This should be the top comment. Social media companies can either be monopolies or they can put limits on the speech of their platform... but they can't do both. While not against the law of freedom of speech, political moderation processes are certainly against the intent. Every once in a while we get a case like this where an unpopular fringe opinion becomes mainstream and underlines the point. But this isn't just…

I agree with you in spirit, though I feel like the issue is more about whether social media are common carriers [1] or publishers.

They shield themselves when they claim to be a carriers, yet act like publishers. The monopoly aspect, I agree, would be more important to speech, given they behave as publishers of what you may as well consider on-spec content.

I'd like to get clear on to what degree they should be considered carriers or publishers.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_carrier

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#439

Post by tryonenow » Fri, May 28, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #389

jacob2484 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember - people were called fascists + racists for mentioning or discussing the lab leak theory.

Remember, the discussion of the lab leak theory is strongly correlated with a rise in hate crimes against Asian-Americans. There were also lots of links made between the lab leak theory and needing to tighten immigration policies to keep out "undesirables".

[dead]

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#440

Post by ytpete » Fri, May 28, 2021, 2:04 AM UTC

noofen wrote: post #24

generalizations wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we accept that taking action against misinformation is good, then this sort of mistake will inevitably happen. If you're in favor of taking action against misinformation, then you should be willing to accept this situation as an acceptable failure. I'm not willing to accept that.

Who would've thought that letting billionaires with international business interests censor scientific inquiry would end badly...

It's really hard to view this as suppressing scientific inquiry. Scientists don't use public Facebook posts to collaborate on their research, nor to share their final results with the rest of the scientific community. It's also very hard to picture social media giants ever blocking users from posting anything that comes from peer-reviewed published science.