Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism • Hacker News Board

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#151

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

cosmodisk wrote: post #144

wolverine876 wrote: post #44

In case people are missing the broader point of the article, beyond the horrifying incident at the beginning: "The whole idea behind Protect is that you could convince people to pay for the product once you’ve gotten them to the highest point of anxiety you can possibly get them to," one former employee said, referring to Citizen's subscription service. "Citizen can’t make money unless it makes its users believe ther…

As an observer from the other side of the pond, I do feel that there's lots of companies built on unsubstantiated fear in the US. Times change and so do the threats, but in a nutshell: •Nuclear bunkers to keep your family safe. •Big guns because they will come for you. •All sorts of tracking devices for kids. •Surveillance systems for homes So the latest seems to be a modern day witch-hunting for masses.

It's not just US. It's the whole western world, everywhere where modern market economy took hold. Look beyond the obvious cases, and you'll see it. For instance:

- I've already mentioned parents upthread. You can sell them any kind of crap if you even hint at some obscure danger to health or life of a newborn. Half of the market of products for parents/small children is based on that. The other half runs on a combination of FOMO, fear of being a bad parent (or being seen as one), and fear of your kid falling behind someone else's kid.

- Wedding market runs on insecurity. If you don't buy this or rent that, your wedding will not be perfect. It's once-in-a-lifetime thing, you can't settle for anything less than ideal. Don't mind the loan you'll have to take, paying back which will define the first few years of your marriage.

- Fear of cancer and cardiovascular diseases is what makes people shut down critical thinking and buy all kinds of bullshit. Organic food and fitness businesses are based mostly on that.

I could go on.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#152

Post by JohnWhigham » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

This shit needs to be shut down. All it's doing is manufacturing a new normal for society to always be on edge and to encourage spying on their neighbors.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#153

Post by sneak » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #134

wolverine876 wrote: post #44

In case people are missing the broader point of the article, beyond the horrifying incident at the beginning: "The whole idea behind Protect is that you could convince people to pay for the product once you’ve gotten them to the highest point of anxiety you can possibly get them to," one former employee said, referring to Citizen's subscription service. "Citizen can’t make money unless it makes its users believe ther…

Oh god. Reminds me of this talk given a certain lawyer, Cliff Ennico, called "How to sell anything to anybody". I watched it by recommendation of a family member, and the very gist of it is: there are two reasons people buy stuff - desire, and fear. If you can artificially inflate either and promise your product will resolve their discomfort, people will rush to buy your wares. I remember being both appalled at the d…

It's super frustrating being a data security consultant sometimes (my trade), due to the fact that playing up danger and fear to close deals has never been something I've been willing to do.

Maybe I need to get over my reluctance, or find a better line of work.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#154

Post by ArkanExplorer » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

Why is George Soros funding DAs who refuse to prosecute crimes?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/george-soro...

"Soros-backed DAs in Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Francisco and other cities have fired scores of experienced prosecutors and, as promised, stopped prosecuting low-level quality-of-life crimes such as disorderly conduct, vagrancy and loitering."

"Mr. Soros’ New York Safety and Public Justice PAC spent at least $800,000 in an unsuccessful bid last November to oust incumbent Republican Sandra Doorley in upstate Monroe County."

Is it to create an opportunity for private police forces and security?

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#155

Post by Animats » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

Wait until "Citizen" does this in a state with more guns.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#156

Post by darkwizard42 » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #154

Why is George Soros funding DAs who refuse to prosecute crimes? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/george-soro... "Soros-backed DAs in Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Francisco and other cities have fired scores of experienced prosecutors and, as promised, stopped prosecuting low-level quality-of-life crimes such as disorderly conduct, vagrancy and loitering." "Mr. Soros’ New York Safety and Public Justice…

What does this have to do with the article in question?

This seems absolutely tangential and baiting...

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#157

Post by atatatat » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:33 PM UTC

midasuni wrote: post #140

labster wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BREAKING NEWS is just a synonym for “news”. The addition of the word “breaking” is just a stylistic choice and conveys no additional meaning.

I remember seeing a headline “breaking news Michael Jackson dead” This was 48 hours after it happened.

If you hadn't heard about it, it was breaking.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#158

Post by idrios » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:33 PM UTC

deckard1 wrote: post #95

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dystopian novels aren't very sci-fi. Many of their authors just researched what was already going on in their own time and formed a new narrative around them. The only thing different today is how people allow themselves to be taken advantage of. They used to give up their freedom for security. Now they give up their privacy for entertainment. But even mega-corps being the new oligarchy isn't new. The railroads, oil…

Every time someone pops up with one of those "Google destroyed my business and won't respond" type problems I'm always reminded of the movie Brazil. Just read the automated messages Google sends out sometime and the callousness of how they can ruin lives by sheer algorithmic accident. I call this phenomenon: Getting Fucked By Scale. It's the idea that a scaled algorithm (take, for example, YouTube automated copyright…

Brazil really is a great depiction of our current dystopia. The fly in the machine leading to Archibald Buttle's wrongful execution is a great analogy for the people whose lives are thrown sideways when the Google algorithm bans their account.

But another scene that really sticks with me is the one where Sam Lowry has the desk in his room, but some person in the room next to him keeps stealing it from him. The fact that 1 desk is shared by 2 rooms is this nonsensical optimization that really just inconveniences him, but highlights how powerless everyone in this world is. For a real world example, there was a time when I was trying to block Facebook and other sites on my phone by editing my phone's hosts file, but couldn't find a way to do it that didn't involve rooting my phone. While trying to find how to do it, I found some people who wanted to do the same thing but all were met with the response "it's locked down to protect you, why would you want to block a website?" It's a very helpless feeling to not have control over something you own.

The worst part is, most people I know see issues like this situation with Citizen's and think we need more centralization of power in order to prevent it.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#159

Post by ArkanExplorer » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

darkwizard42 wrote: post #156

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #154

Why is George Soros funding DAs who refuse to prosecute crimes? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/george-soro... "Soros-backed DAs in Philadelphia, St. Louis, San Francisco and other cities have fired scores of experienced prosecutors and, as promised, stopped prosecuting low-level quality-of-life crimes such as disorderly conduct, vagrancy and loitering." "Mr. Soros’ New York Safety and Public Justice…

What does this have to do with the article in question? This seems absolutely tangential and baiting...

Because without those DAs, put in place deliberately by a billionaire, crime rates would not be rising and apps like Citizen would be less necessary.

If you have a police force who cannot prosecute crimes then it seems inevitable that private or individual security will take over.

If this becomes a multi-billion industry, then spending a few million on DAs seems like a reasonable bet.

Of course, society is a lot worse off, so it seems reasonable to question what is going on.

Re: Citizen’s dangerous effort to cash in on vigilantism

#160

Post by cosmodisk » Thu, May 27, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #151

cosmodisk wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an observer from the other side of the pond, I do feel that there's lots of companies built on unsubstantiated fear in the US. Times change and so do the threats, but in a nutshell: •Nuclear bunkers to keep your family safe. •Big guns because they will come for you. •All sorts of tracking devices for kids. •Surveillance systems for homes So the latest seems to be a modern day witch-hunting for masses.

It's not just US. It's the whole western world, everywhere where modern market economy took hold. Look beyond the obvious cases, and you'll see it. For instance: - I've already mentioned parents upthread. You can sell them any kind of crap if you even hint at some obscure danger to health or life of a newborn. Half of the market of products for parents/small children is based on that. The other half runs on a combina…

You are right.

We welcomed our daughter a few years ago and the amount of stuff that has been invented over the last decade is breathtaking. Monitors, special pillows, all sorts of foods, supplements, and what not. You look at it all and think wtf...

FOMO is huge too, especially with social media nowadays. I can't count the number of times people look at me with puzzled expressions thinking how on earth I don't use x,y,or z service/product. Want to lose weight? Of course you can't just go for a walk. You need a subscription to 5 celebrity weight loss programs, an indoor bike for a couple grand, super 24/7 gym membership, running club, neighborhood calorie watch, lifting buddy,etc.