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The only Buddhist region in Europe

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Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#181

Post by tom_mellior »

cryptochamorro wrote: post #142
tom_mellior wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What knowledge would that be? At least in these Catholicism-dominated parts, that knowledge seems to look something like "you better watch it because you're a sinner and might end up burning in hell, except that Jesus saved you because he loves you, but for some reason despite being saved you are still a sinner and might end up burning in hell". You kind of sound like that's not the premise you mean.

The whole "Catholic guilt" thing is of often pointed to as some whacky vehicle of control, which is a total mischaracterization of what that perspective is meant to do. Many religions and philosophers understand the idea that humans are not basically good people. They are generally self centered and not sacrificial. So to say that Catholicism or Christianity is strange for placing emphasis on our "fallenness" is a li…

"Be nice to each other" is preached by every other world religion, as well as being at the center of many non-religious world views. The fact that we can and should be nice to each other to make the world a better place can hardly be what the grandparent meant by "knowledge to humans that is not knowable by any other means", which was what I was really asking about.

Thanks for your perspective. You're certainly selling it better than the Catholic Church is. (You won't be surprised to hear that I'm not buying into the whole thing either way.)

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#182

Post by klyrs »

dukeyukey wrote: post #179
asdff wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hellenism is not a strictly European culture. Most of the hellenic world population lived in Africa or the middle east. These were much larger population centers than cities greece, italy, or anywhere else in the European Mediterranean at the time.

Maybe not European by a strict modern geographic interpretation, but ancient Greek culture laid down so many ideas fundamental to the modern West it would be disingenuous to say it isn't European.

Wouldn't that suggest that Europe is Grecian, and not the other way around?

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#183

Post by klyrs »

dukeyukey wrote: post #180
rthomas6 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western/secular Buddhism popularized in the west is generally not the same as Buddhism practiced in Buddhist countries. The actual Buddhist religion teachings can include, depending on the branch: - Hell and heaven realms where you can get reincarnated into if you've lived an especially bad or good life - Various gods and demons - A timeline spanning trillions of years and hundreds of Buddhas - "Celestial Buddhas" th…

Equally, the branch of Protestant Christianity commonly practiced in North America is pretty far from the Christianity practiced in the the Middle East, or Africa, or even big swathes of Europe. Disparate cultures often put their own spin on things, and it's no surprise the relatively rational-secular West put a rational-secular spin on Buddhism.

Indeed, it stretches the imagination to suggest that Jesus would even be welcome in many American churches... he provided free health care for sex workers, for crying out loud

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#184

Post by h0l0cube »

contingencies wrote: post #165
hangonhn wrote: post #118

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged. Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom {{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but…

For those interested, here's a useful graphic from wikipedia showing the various schools of Buddhism and their movements:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buddhist_Expansion.svg

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#185

Post by dukeyukey »

klyrs wrote: post #182
dukeyukey wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not European by a strict modern geographic interpretation, but ancient Greek culture laid down so many ideas fundamental to the modern West it would be disingenuous to say it isn't European.

Wouldn't that suggest that Europe is Grecian, and not the other way around?

Maybe, in the same way all adults are just big toddlers. But it discounts the pretty major effect other cultures have had, in the same way describing an adult as a grown-up toddler discounts all the experiences they’ve had in between.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#186

Post by [deleted] »

dukeyukey wrote: post #185
klyrs wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that suggest that Europe is Grecian, and not the other way around?

Maybe, in the same way all adults are just big toddlers. But it discounts the pretty major effect other cultures have had, in the same way describing an adult as a grown-up toddler discounts all the experiences they’ve had in between.

[deleted]

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#187

Post by routerl »

contingencies wrote: post #165
hangonhn wrote: post #118

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged. Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom {{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but…

This is just excellent. Thank you.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#188

Post by sattoshi »

tomcooks wrote: post #92
Archelaos wrote: post #4

I always find it quite embarrassing when right-wing politicians here in Germany come up with this or that does not belong to Europe. In all cases this only shows their geographical and historical ignorance. Kalmykia is a good example. Most of these politicians have never understood that Buddism has been part of Europe for centuries. My favorite example, however, is that they mostly do not know that we have had a perm…

If you want to have fun with right-wing politicians that blabber about "our Christian roots", just ask them how they feel about Christianity being a subset of Judaism.

I think you got it the other way around. Christianity is Judaism + New Testament. Judaism is old testament.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#189

Post by nec4b »

Archelaos wrote: post #4

I always find it quite embarrassing when right-wing politicians here in Germany come up with this or that does not belong to Europe. In all cases this only shows their geographical and historical ignorance. Kalmykia is a good example. Most of these politicians have never understood that Buddism has been part of Europe for centuries. My favorite example, however, is that they mostly do not know that we have had a perm…

It is also a bit embarrassing not being able to differentiate between Europe (as a geographical part of the eurasian contintent) and Europe (as region with common history and values, only a small geographical part of the continent). It is the same way when talking about America. One can assume from the context whether it is about the USA or the continent)

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#190

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

michael1999 wrote: post #68
Grustaf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point about that? Nobody is worried about "geographic Europe", people care about actual Europe, not some technical term. If someone is worried that Arab Muslims, or for that matter Arab Christians, will not assimilate into European culture and are incompatible with European values, how is it even remotely relevant that there is a tiny federal subject in what is technically European Russia where there's a…

What is "actual" Europe? Who gets to decide? Consider Russia: are they, or are they not "European"? Is the Orthodox Church European? That you think the answer is so simple, or that anyone who thinks differently is "nobody" is part of why it is so unsettled.

It sort of makes sense culturally and historically to define Europe as the part that falls in the sphere of influence of the Catholic Church and its protestant spinoffs. After all, Ukraine is not thought to mean 'borderland' for nothing.

I still prefer the geographic definition, but this is a close second.

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