The only Buddhist region in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#131

Post by biztos » Wed, May 26, 2021, 6:46 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #59

It seems weird Buddhism is such a minor religion in Europe while it is so rational, based on individual experience (rather than belief) gained through reproducible applied self-regulation techniques, backed by neuroscience and explained with consistent philosophical logic.

Plenty -- most? -- forms of Buddhism also have tons of mysticism, gods, reincarnation, and other stuff that would have to compete with Europe's other religious traditions.

What you're saying is sort of like reducing Christianity to "love thy neighbor" and wondering why that didn't catch on wherever people are nice.

I'm in a Buddhist country right now, and I really dig it, and I'm learning all kinds of awesome things about how people live -- but I'm not sure I'd say the locals are more rational than the Europeans. Nor would I say the Europeans are necessarily more rational than anybody else... maybe "performative rationalism" would be a good term?

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#132

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, May 26, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

u9rptDjqLl0Pdcz wrote: post #125

throwaway894345 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the Sami? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sámi_shamanism Pretty sure they are indigenous and I would think their religion would qualify as an “indigenous religion”?

Has that been continuously practiced? Other wikipedia pages [0][1] on the Sami suggest that they were all converted to Christianity by the end of the 18th century. There are people who practice Norse paganism today but that is a reconstructed faith based on old writings rather than a surviving religion. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_the_S%C3%A... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1mi_peo…

It's unclear to me. The wikipedia article doesn't say, but it seems to refer to it in the present tense as though it is still practiced. I would hope if it died out and was then reconstructed, the entry would mention as much. Here's an article linked to in the entry, which I don't have time to read, but sounds promising:

The Decline of the Sámi People’s Indigenous Religion http://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/diehtu/siida/christian/decl...

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#133

Post by tom_mellior » Wed, May 26, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

x3iv130f wrote: post #123

brink wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child I had a subconscious assumption that Christianity wasn't rational, and maintained that view into my mid-twenties. Thankfully, I had the drive to do research on it, and an open enough mind to accept it, because I was ready to reject Christianity completely for a short period. I know this view isn't popular, but today, I see Christianity as the most rational philosophy/religion out there. I think it's been w…

Christians have always been 1/3 scholar, 1/3 philosopher, and 1/3 priest. The premise of Christianity is "revelation". That a higher power revealed knowledge to humans that is not knowable by any other means. That there is revealed knowledge has meant that Christians spend much of their time thinking about and working out the implications of their revealed knowledge and trying to fit it into the rest of the world. Ho…

What knowledge would that be? At least in these Catholicism-dominated parts, that knowledge seems to look something like "you better watch it because you're a sinner and might end up burning in hell, except that Jesus saved you because he loves you, but for some reason despite being saved you are still a sinner and might end up burning in hell". You kind of sound like that's not the premise you mean.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#134

Post by tengbretson » Wed, May 26, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

DataGata wrote: post #114

tengbretson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the belief in creation by God requires any more leaps of faith than a belief in other cosmologies, such as the big bang, etc.

The Big Bang has physical evidence for its existence that you can personally verify.

If I hypothesize that a blue Honda Civic was the origin of space, time and the known universe, physical evidence that blue Honda Civics exist does absolutely nothing to confirm or refute my hypothesis.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#135

Post by ardit33 » Wed, May 26, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

Clickbait article. That's not really South East Europe though, but more far east, in the Asian border. Barely Europe.

Southeast Europe is usually thought to be Greece, Albania, Croatia and the rest of the Balkan countries.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#136

Post by tom_mellior » Wed, May 26, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

ardit33 wrote: post #135

Clickbait article. That's not really South East Europe though, but more far east, in the Asian border. Barely Europe. Southeast Europe is usually thought to be Greece, Albania, Croatia and the rest of the Balkan countries.

You're right that there is a well-established term "Southeast Europe" to refer to the countries you mention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Europe

But there is also the fact that Europe continues far to the east of those parts, so there is another southeast corner somewhere else.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#137

Post by Grustaf » Wed, May 26, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #80

Grustaf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone talks about “Europe” they are not referring to “anything west of the Urals”, they mean Germany, France etc, possibly Hungary, Slovakia etc or, if they are feeling generous, Ukraine and Belarus. It has never happened that two people were chatting about “European culture and values” and had the khanate of Kazan in mind.

If I use the term "Europe" I mean the usual definition of the continent of Europe which is pretty much "everything west of the Urals". As far as I'm concerned, Moscow is in Europe.

You’re not from Europe I presume?

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#138

Post by tombh » Wed, May 26, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #118

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

Indeed, before the Greeks The Buddha would most commonly only be depicted by his absence, an empty chair or foot prints most famously. It's amazing that the iconography of a religion so ancient and "exotic" is so significantly shaped by European culture.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#139

Post by wirrbel » Wed, May 26, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

tom_mellior wrote: post #133

x3iv130f wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christians have always been 1/3 scholar, 1/3 philosopher, and 1/3 priest. The premise of Christianity is "revelation". That a higher power revealed knowledge to humans that is not knowable by any other means. That there is revealed knowledge has meant that Christians spend much of their time thinking about and working out the implications of their revealed knowledge and trying to fit it into the rest of the world. Ho…

What knowledge would that be? At least in these Catholicism-dominated parts, that knowledge seems to look something like "you better watch it because you're a sinner and might end up burning in hell, except that Jesus saved you because he loves you, but for some reason despite being saved you are still a sinner and might end up burning in hell". You kind of sound like that's not the premise you mean.

The roman branch of christianity (from which Roman Catholicism and protestantism arise) are hugely influenced by lawyers and roman law, which emphasises sinning and punishment a lot. If you are a sinner your priest is a parole officer.

The eastern christianity still recognises sin, but treats it more like a disease, the priest is more of a doctor.

I find this more appealing from a philosophical point of view, yet I lack any reason to believe.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#140

Post by yowlingcat » Wed, May 26, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #116

yowlingcat wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wasn’t that a product of Aryan migrations from the north? I know this isn't a great answer, but "yes and no" -- it is certainly true that the Proto-Indo-Europeans brought with them Rigvedic religion. But that religion itself was syncretized with other beliefs across Central Asia and South Asia over quite a long period of time. While it is often dramatized as a "violent" invasion (no doubt reminiscent of later "viol…

Yeah, which I guess beckons my other question: what makes something indigenous considering how frequently changes are produced gradually by cultural exchange, gradual migrations, etc?

It's a great question, and I'm inclined to ask the same one. My answer is that indigeneity is somewhat of a red herring. Empires have existed for as long as changes have been produced gradually by cultural exchange and gradual migrations as you point out, so the boundary between indigenous and not seems porous to me.