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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#361

Post by chimeracoder »

mjevans wrote: post #350
chimeracoder wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device. This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.

It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices. The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.

IMO the issue is that they fail unsafe, whether or not they claim compliance.

Nintendo doesn't claim compliance, but if they're using the connector shape, it should comply with the spec for power delivery (which is honestly not even hard to do).

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#362

Post by Klinky »

wearywanderer wrote: post #339
Klinky wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB3 did have blue color coding on the plastic interior of the connector. That doesn't exist on USB-C. You'd have to color-code the metallic connector or the connector housing. Forcing a color-coding scheme on the connector housing would clash with branding, so you'd likely end up with companies ignoring the color coding. People will also ignore the color coding even if it existed. Counterfeiters would add the color…

> The people who feel gaslit over a USB-C cable not working would probably also feel gaslit over buying the "wrong USB C cable", They might feel deceived or mislead by the packaging, but they won't have to wonder if they are somehow using their computer wrong. Particularly for people who lack confidence with computers, this means a lot.

While I can understand the desire to make it easier for non-savvy computer users, I don't think it's worth destroying the technical gains USB-C brings with it. Again, we've had non-savvy users hook stuff up wrong or destroy things even when ports had differentiated shapes. A software solution to identify the incompatibility and notify the user seems more practical than redesigning the connector for every evolution of USB-C.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#363

Post by ktkoffroth »

SiVal wrote: post #204
ohazi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.). Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.

Since the design philosophy behind USB-C is "it must always seem as though it should work", I think we'll need something like the old "tube testers" a few of us still remember. Decades ago, when your TV was behaving badly, you would take the back off (unplug first!), pull the vacuum tubes out, and take them in a bag to the nearest convenience store. They had a "tube tester" the size of a washing machine. You'd plug e…

I'm down to work on this idea.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#364

Post by freeone3000 »

unparagoned wrote: post #309
alerighi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using the proper cable could lead also to fires, for example. We are talking about a significant amount of current. If you don't use a cable rated for that current, the cable or the connector will overheat, and possibly start a fire. And it's not a remote possibility. It happened to me with a fast charging phone power supply and the phone, and the cable was the one provided by the manufacturer! The type-C connect…

When I last worked with USB, there were all sorts of resistors over the pins telling you about its capabilities. I'm pretty sure usb-c has that as well. Your device should check the spec of the cable and inly draw the amount if power its rated for

There's a microcontroller in the cable negotiating the power transfer rate, data transfer rate, and other capabities.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#365

Post by worewood »

Animats wrote: post #326
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. Then there's the crap offered for sale on Alibaba which somebody will resell on Amazon and which will show up on a checkout rack at the gas station. USB-C has very tight tolerances and unusual material requirements. Dirt or water can create a conductive path all too easily with USB-C p…

Yeah but there will always be crap for Alibaba for anything you can think of. The solution would be banning charging altogether and adopt only proprietary standards.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#366

Post by tingletech »

SiVal wrote: post #204
ohazi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.). Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.

Since the design philosophy behind USB-C is "it must always seem as though it should work", I think we'll need something like the old "tube testers" a few of us still remember. Decades ago, when your TV was behaving badly, you would take the back off (unplug first!), pull the vacuum tubes out, and take them in a bag to the nearest convenience store. They had a "tube tester" the size of a washing machine. You'd plug e…

I remember some drugstores had these when I was growing up. My grandpa had two of them in his garage; where he had bought the machine and the stores' collection of tubes, when they were falling out of fasion.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#367

Post by Taniwha »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #357
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid, we had this massive high-voltage transformer that produced about 2,000 volts, at some sick amperage. We used it to make jacob's ladders. That was fun. Until I touched the two bars. I woke up on the other side of the room, smelling burning... me . That wasn't fun...

I learned this recently: > If you receive a shock, if can affect the rhythm of your heart and cause problems later. We’re taught to go and get an ECG after receiving a shock. Like jump in the car and go to the doctor or hospital, and have someone else drive you. If you’ve received a shock - go get checked out. -jaidan https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27259589

yup, always work around high voltages with your left hand (the one closes to your heart) in your pocket, to discourage unwanted currents from passing through the heart

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#369

Post by notatoad »

mjevans wrote: post #350
chimeracoder wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device. This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.

It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices. The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.

again though, this is bad but not a flaw in usb-c. a manufacturer created a device that violates the spec.

MicroUSB devices can also be bricked by using non-conforming cables and power adapters, but fortunately devices like that are rare because the spec has existed long enough that all the bad devices have been flushed out of the market. manufacturers having made stupid decisions in the past does not mean we shouldn't make USB-C better now.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#370

Post by notatoad »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #290
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

>The specifications are very carefully designed I need assurance though that my cables were carefully designed.

buy your cables from reputable manufacturers...
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