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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#141

Post by ohazi »

grlass wrote: post #134
neither_color wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And every time I buy a new device and think I'll be able to use my existing USB-C cables I'm met with a new standard. Bought a new external GPU enclosure? My macbook charging cable wont work I need a 40gbps thunderbolt THREE(not 2) cable. Bought a new Oculus Quest? Neither my egpu or macbook cables work I need an $80 LINK cable.

I wonder if the the committee have looked at integrating colour or some other indicator into the standard so that cable/port capabilities are clear visually. Though ofc the design challenge is for users to feel comfortable that putting red into blue won't break anything, it just might not give the expected features.

Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.).

Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#142

Post by baybal2 »

OnlyOneCannolo wrote: post #97
baybal2 wrote: post #86

Uh.... Melting USB-C connectors at 65W are already bad enough. The problem is that there is no way to detect a bad contact, and they tend to be. Few specs of dust, and you have 5 amps going to a single pin. Even if you have split seconds momentary disconnects, you can get welds in contact pads, which will over time degrade the contact. On other note, Intel may be increasing laptop CPU power budgets into 60W-70W terri…

Is it really undetectable? A smarter USB PD controller and maybe some extra sensors should be able to mostly avoid that problem, no?

No, unless you put a sense resistor on every power pin, and add circuitry to individually measure current per pin.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#143

Post by the_pwner224 »

asdff wrote: post #108
ak217 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, the flipside is that Thunderbolt delivers genuinely cutting-edge interconnect capabilities. I can run two 4K60 displays and a dozen peripheral devices, and charge my laptop, all via a single cable off of my $100 Thunderbolt 3 dock. There is no other technology that comes close to this capability at this price point.

At the same time, I have no idea if the cable I have is a thunderbolt or usb-c cable. There is no standard marking.

Thunderbolt cables generally have a lightning bolt mark, and are expensive and short and thick+inflexible. And because of that, you likely don't have any except for the one coming out of a thunderbolt dock or external GPU enclosure etc.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#144

Post by sbradford26 »

tshaddox wrote: post #66
mavhc wrote: post #52

Powering 90% of the things in your house via DC power should be the future, no more switching from DC solar/battery back to AC and then back to DC again for no reason.

The reason is that AC can be easily transformed to very high voltages which allow power transmission over long distances with lower losses. I doubt this is going to change any time soon. Of course, you could still have central DC conversion in your house (or maybe even neighborhood) and use USB or similar in your home’s wall outlets, instead of each device needing its own little power brick.

So back when the electrical grid was being created it was basically impossible to step up and down DC. So it had to be distributed at the voltage it was used at. AC could be stepped up and and down with transformers which reduces losses. Now though that we have the circuitry to step up and down DC fairly easily you can actually get more efficient long distance transmission with DC due to not having to factor in things such as skin effect. I don't think things will change quickly but I do believe we will be seeing more DC systems in the home and workplace in the future since it will also mesh with renewables better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current#Co...

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#145

Post by math0ne »

nindalf wrote: post #14

This is pretty good for the people who have such laptops, but I’m just struggling to understand the use case for a laptop. A laptop that consumes that much power can’t possibly have much battery life. At that point, are you getting much portability out of your laptop? Why not just use a desktop?

I like to be able to move a powerful computer to different rooms of my house.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#146

Post by grlass »

ohazi wrote: post #141
grlass wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the the committee have looked at integrating colour or some other indicator into the standard so that cable/port capabilities are clear visually. Though ofc the design challenge is for users to feel comfortable that putting red into blue won't break anything, it just might not give the expected features.

Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.). Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.

Yeah, it's a bit of tragedy.

Resistor style stripes on cables would be fun, a stripe for each feature such as bandwidth, power, etc; perhaps already suggested (and ignored). Though complement for ports would be trickier.

Embossing symbols in the style of thunderbolt might be the way to go, even if the standard is not fully adopted.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#147

Post by DebtDeflation »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13
croon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having one USB-C dock powering your laptop (maybe with a hungry GPU), as well as a couple of monitors with everything through just usb-c cables is my hope, and this is one step closer.

At which point do we change assumptions about safety of USB cables though? Myself and most people I know always considered USB connection to be safe-ish - that is, you can keep the cable connected on the supply side, and have the receiver end just lie on the desk on the floor, and the worst that could possibly happen is some tiny sparking if the stray end touches something conductive in a very unlucky way. But the mo…

>At which point do we change assumptions about safety of USB cables though?

It's a good question. Generally speaking, DC is considered a shock hazard at or above 60V, but OSHA recognizes 50-60V as being potentially hazardous. It's certainly an arc hazard when disconnecting as the article notes. And 5A at just about any voltage will start a fire in case of a short circuit.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#148

Post by Rebelgecko »

neither_color wrote: post #132
grawprog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had to delve into the world of trying to find an appropriate USB-C cable until fairly recently. I didn't actually understand the situation thinking a replacement USB-C cable should just work. Oh hell no and none of the packaging actually explains what features a cable supports, none of them actually explain what the cable is actually compatible with. The little android logo doesn't mean shit. Sure, you migh…

And every time I buy a new device and think I'll be able to use my existing USB-C cables I'm met with a new standard. Bought a new external GPU enclosure? My macbook charging cable wont work I need a 40gbps thunderbolt THREE(not 2) cable. Bought a new Oculus Quest? Neither my egpu or macbook cables work I need an $80 LINK cable.

My Oculus Quest works fine with a 3meter AmazonBasics USB cable that I got for like $15. I think the only advantage of the official link cable is that it gets you 5m without needing to add an extender to a 3m cable

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#150

Post by anfilt »

I still don't understand the point of all this... What is wrong with simple barrel connector... It's not like a phone is gonna need to draw 240 watts...

Just keeps making the spec more and more complicated...

Also are the small contacts in a USB-C connector even reasonable to run with this much current? Is there enough cross sectional area on these contacts?

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