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Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

reuters.com

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Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#131

Post by billyhoffman »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #86
Sebb767 wrote: post #7

> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? Is it usual for a pilot to ask for all this information? From a "casual reader" perspective, it looks like the pilot really did not want to divert, but this might just be my reading.

Anecdotal but Ryanair also really really don’t want to be diverting. I remember circling an airport for 2 hours with them waiting for very heavy snow to be cleared for a runway! Eventually they diverted.

Is this specific to Ryanair? I imagine a plane not landing at the intended destination airport is much more disruptive than being late to that destination. E.g. passengers waiting at the destination airport for a flight involving that incoming plane, different airlines having only a fixed number of gates leased at a specific airport, etc

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#132

Post by r721 »

FabHK wrote: post #95
r721 wrote: post #29

>according to a transcript released on Tuesday by authorities in Belarus. >Following are excerpts from the transcript, which Reuters was unable to verify. I would wait for a Ryanair transcript.

That would be interesting. Not sure the airline has one, the CVR normally records only the last two hours IIRC.

They could officially confirm this transcript then (if it's legit)?

I mean we shouldn't trust Lukashenko with this stuff, he officially released some wild fakes:

>Alyaksandr Lukashenka declared recently that he got proof that Western powers stand behind both the Navalny case and the protests in Belarus. 4 September, the Belarusian security services, KGB (yes, KGB), published an audio recording of a super-secret conversation between officers of the German and Polish special forces, discussing details on the Navalny poisoning and noting that Lukashenka has proven to be a hard nut to crack.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mike-and-nick-vs-die-hard-lukashenka/

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#133

Post by baybal2 »

nGW56Nak60 wrote: post #123
baybal2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No carelessness, that's exactly what they were told to do: shoot down everything that flies. That was their explicit order.

Russia had no reasons to take down that plane. The air space was open with planes flying over Donbas every day. A bunch of monkeys mistook it for a Ukrainian military plane and blew it up.

No, it was an explicit order, close down the airspace no matter what. This implied shooting everything that flies in the most literal sense. They knew fully they were shooting a civilian plane.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#134

Post by zokier »

phkahler wrote: post #46
zerkten wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had time to follow this episode to the level of detail I normally would. I would expect a number of factors at play around hesitancy, not limited to: * Expectation of contact on other frequencies. * Minsk directly stating bomb on board with connection to Vilnius (may not be protocol) * Airport staff sent email (again, is this correct protocol?) * Message being that activation is over Vilnius (pilot may have…

>> You should be able to trust any controller is acting in good faith as a civilian navigator, but that's clearly not the case. Maybe the controller believed the information they had? I'm sure it wasn't their plan to do this, so someone told them something. But then we can move your statement to the next layer - the controller should be able to trust that someone giving them that kind of information is acting in good…

If they genuinely believed the information, why were they so circuitous in answering the captains questions? For example

> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities?

> Controller: This is our recommendations.

I'm more like to believe that the ATC controller was acting under duress

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#135

Post by bobthepanda »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #72
bobthepanda wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flight plans include alternate airports, and Minsk is far enough away compared to other airports to not be on a filed flight plan for this particular route.

Filed alternatives are for fuel planning and satisfying the bureaucracy (showing the flight complies with ETOPS etc). In a real emergency the pilots will select the most convenient airport based on whatever factors they are presented with. Especially so in today's world of paperless cockpits, in the past having the correct approaches to hand might have tipped the balance in favour of a planned alternative.

Sure, and judging by the transcript Minsk wasn't the pilot's choice.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#136

Post by nomoreplease »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #36
Sebb767 wrote: post #7

> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? Is it usual for a pilot to ask for all this information? From a "casual reader" perspective, it looks like the pilot really did not want to divert, but this might just be my reading.

PIC is ultimately responsible for safety of flight, not controllers or authorities. Given the unusual message which is essentially asking the pilot to declare emergency and oddly specific instructions to divert I don't think this is unusual. Normally in an emergency the pilot would divert to either the filed alternate airport or to another at the pilot's discretion, they would not be told specifically where to go (th…

Also, when you look at the flight path, the Minsk airport was MUCH further from the Vilnius airport they intended to land at. They were almost to their destination and ALMOST out of Belarus airspace.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#137

Post by wearywanderer »

balozi wrote: post #94
xibalba wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this "recommendation" accompanied by a fighter jet? That isn't exact a Milgram scenario.

Is there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?

Are you for real? When a fighter jet intercepts you, you damn well know it. That's the whole point of fighter jets intercepting planes; they are impossible for pilots to ignore.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#138

Post by mola »

Svettie wrote: post #111
morelisp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time someone makes this comparison all it does is strengthen Lukashenko and Putin's propaganda machine. It doesn't help Protasevich, it doesn't help Snowden, and it doesn't create room for any positive political change.

It's an apt comparison. And if we don't like the consequences, all the more reason to reflect on our own actions

How is it apt? In one case a fake bomb threat and a fighter jet force land a commercial flight for political reasons of a despot. on the other side refusal to allow air travel through sovereign air space of democratic countries, and was "downed" after failing to comply. This is far from apt comparison.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#139

Post by zokier »

balozi wrote: post #94
xibalba wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this "recommendation" accompanied by a fighter jet? That isn't exact a Milgram scenario.

Is there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?

Assuming the transcript is genuine and reasonably complete, then I would be surprised if captain would have been aware of their escort (if it existed), at least before making the decision to divert to Minsk. Feels like it is something that would have come up in the communication.

Also, sky is pretty big, and a MiG-29 has no problem tracking and following a fat passenger jet at a distance. Most likely only way pilot could have noticed the MiG would have been if the MiG would have intentionally made itself seen, i.e. flying very close by.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#140

Post by estaseuropano »

publicola1990 wrote: post #102
balozi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?

Is there even a credible report of it being accompanied by a military jet? The reports I have seen are all sketchy on that part.

I think what you are doing ia astroturfing but just in case anyone believes this bullshit, there is zero doubt that a fighter jet went up and 'escorted' the plane.

https://apnews.com/article/belarus-europe-edcf633281e3e9a55b...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/05/belarus-journ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-23/belarus-d...

In case of any doubt left, here is an official sanction decision on this signed by 27 countries:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021...

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