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Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

reuters.com

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Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#71

Post by iso1631 »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #36
Sebb767 wrote: post #7

> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? Is it usual for a pilot to ask for all this information? From a "casual reader" perspective, it looks like the pilot really did not want to divert, but this might just be my reading.

PIC is ultimately responsible for safety of flight, not controllers or authorities. Given the unusual message which is essentially asking the pilot to declare emergency and oddly specific instructions to divert I don't think this is unusual. Normally in an emergency the pilot would divert to either the filed alternate airport or to another at the pilot's discretion, they would not be told specifically where to go (th…

In situations where a controller believes that an aircraft has hostile intent (say believe it's been hijacked), then they (and/or air force) will give specific instructions. Obviously if you think you might have a 9/11 situation with a plane coming into say London, you tell them to divert to Stansted (well away from the city). If they continue flying to central London, then at some point you have to take the decision to shoot it down, or hope that the pilot isn't going to fly into a building.

That decision would probably come from the PM in the UK.

An engine failure situation then sure, it's upto the pilot.

(Of course in this specific case it was a hostile government hijacking a commercial plane and there was no legitimate reason at all to divert to Minsk)

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#72

Post by VBprogrammer »

bobthepanda wrote: post #48
StavrosK wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the pilot was aware of any reason not to fly to Minsk at the time.

Flight plans include alternate airports, and Minsk is far enough away compared to other airports to not be on a filed flight plan for this particular route.

Filed alternatives are for fuel planning and satisfying the bureaucracy (showing the flight complies with ETOPS etc).

In a real emergency the pilots will select the most convenient airport based on whatever factors they are presented with. Especially so in today's world of paperless cockpits, in the past having the correct approaches to hand might have tipped the balance in favour of a planned alternative.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#73

Post by davidw »

Judgmentality wrote: post #64
ddalex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a MiG firing on a NATO-country airplane that's in NATO airspace is definitely sound reason of invoking NATO Art 5

There is an enormous leap between "violating airspace" and "shooting down a passenger plane while violating airspace"

The Russians, via their proxies in Ukraine, blew up an airliner a few years back.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#74

Post by KingOfCoders »

djxfade wrote: post #44
gspr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not usual. As for the pilot being suspicious, I agree. The plane was also only about 30 km (=2-3 min flying time) from the Lithuanian border. Imagine if the pilot had decided to make the attempt. A Belarusian MiG violating NATO airspace?

Russian airforces regularly violates NATO airspace in Norway. They never get any consequences for it, so why wouldn't they?

Any source?

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#75

Post by Blackthorn »

morelisp wrote: post #58
jahabrewer wrote: post #22

Unbelievable that they'd go through this charade to arrest ~Snowden~ Protasevich.

Every time someone makes this comparison all it does is strengthen Lukashenko and Putin's propaganda machine. It doesn't help Protasevich, it doesn't help Snowden, and it doesn't create room for any positive political change.

If the comparison to a recent event is strengthening the propaganda machine of those regimes, that says a lot more about said recent event than it does about those regimes.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#76

Post by mempko »

morelisp wrote: post #58
jahabrewer wrote: post #22

Unbelievable that they'd go through this charade to arrest ~Snowden~ Protasevich.

Every time someone makes this comparison all it does is strengthen Lukashenko and Putin's propaganda machine. It doesn't help Protasevich, it doesn't help Snowden, and it doesn't create room for any positive political change.

You are assuming there is a neutral third party. Yes, the comparison does strengthen Putin's propaganda machine. But not mentioning it strengthens the US propaganda machine. You are picking sides either way.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#77

Post by FabHK »

phkahler wrote: post #46
zerkten wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had time to follow this episode to the level of detail I normally would. I would expect a number of factors at play around hesitancy, not limited to: * Expectation of contact on other frequencies. * Minsk directly stating bomb on board with connection to Vilnius (may not be protocol) * Airport staff sent email (again, is this correct protocol?) * Message being that activation is over Vilnius (pilot may have…

>> You should be able to trust any controller is acting in good faith as a civilian navigator, but that's clearly not the case. Maybe the controller believed the information they had? I'm sure it wasn't their plan to do this, so someone told them something. But then we can move your statement to the next layer - the controller should be able to trust that someone giving them that kind of information is acting in good…

Which is one particularly heinous aspect of this whole saga btw - the loss of trust due to the abuse of the emergency protocols. A bit like abusing the Red Cross or a white flag to commit an attack in war. One just doesn’t do that.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#78

Post by barbazoo »

ethbr0 wrote: post #49
yupper32 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the source is likely good enough to post. MSNBC reported on some CNN reporting the other week, while acknowledging that they haven't independently verified it yet. MSNBC was not saying that CNN isn't credible, it's just that they like to clarify that they haven't verified it themselves yet.

ATC traffic is still unencrypted right? I'd assume multiple parties have recordings.

Absolutely. You can listen in via pages like https://www.liveatc.net/. There are even recordings but the list isn't complete obviously: https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#79

Post by complex1314 »

djxfade wrote: post #44
gspr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not usual. As for the pilot being suspicious, I agree. The plane was also only about 30 km (=2-3 min flying time) from the Lithuanian border. Imagine if the pilot had decided to make the attempt. A Belarusian MiG violating NATO airspace?

Russian airforces regularly violates NATO airspace in Norway. They never get any consequences for it, so why wouldn't they?

Would love some sources on that, because that would be a big issue. Russians regularly fly in international airspace along the Norwegian coast and are intercepted there by Norwegian fighters, but I have never heard about them actually violating Norwegian airspace. This is the closest I know of:

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2019/02/11-russia...

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#80

Post by barbazoo »

donretag wrote: post #26

The controller[s] were probably just as powerless as the pilot (considering the fighter escort). Get that plane to land, period. Were they reading from a script and did they improvise?

The pilot is not powerless at all in "usual" emergencies. Declaring an emergency allows them to do pretty much anything. Once you get hijacked by a fighter plane though, that's a different story.
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