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Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

reuters.com

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Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#101

Post by cmrdporcupine »

cryptonector wrote: post #89
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not analogous. The Morales incident was wrong, but not the same. Firstly, Morales' plane wasn't a civilian airliner, it was his government's private jet. Secondly, no fake bomb threat was involved. Thirdly, nobody was arrested. And it's now being employed as a "whatabout" distortion by those sympathetic to (or uncritical of) the Belarusian action. The two incidents differ drastically. Actions of a state against…

I don't believe those making the analogy are sympathetic to or uncritical of the Belarus government, rather they are saying "I told you so" or "the Morales incident set a precedent, surprise!". Now, Belarus might have pulled this stunt even if the Morales incident had never happened, and that's a fine counterpoint, but you really should not ascribe malice to those who point to the similarities in the two incidents be…

The thing is that there have been many incidents like this, not just the Snowden incident. Israel has done this kind of thing before, dating back to decades ago (and kidnapped people [NAZI war criminals, so frankly probably justified] from other countries territory, too).

I doubt Belarus needed the Morales thing as a cover.

> Wars have been fought over both, attacks on state ships, and attacks on civilian ships.

Yes, this was the casus belli for the war of 1812, supposedly. But the reality in statecraft is that this is rarely the actual reason and there's much more in depth and structural reasons for the start of war.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#102

Post by publicola1990 »

balozi wrote: post #94
xibalba wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this "recommendation" accompanied by a fighter jet? That isn't exact a Milgram scenario.

Is there any indication that the pilots were aware of the military jet?

Is there even a credible report of it being accompanied by a military jet? The reports I have seen are all sketchy on that part.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#103

Post by gugagore »

morelisp wrote: post #82
mempko wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming there is a neutral third party. Yes, the comparison does strengthen Putin's propaganda machine. But not mentioning it strengthens the US propaganda machine. You are picking sides either way.

Not mentioning it does nothing. The US propaganda machine is not hurt in any way by mentioning it. It happened nearly a decade ago and is not really a similar situation in any way except that it involved a plane.

> Not mentioning it does nothing.

I don't understand how you assert this.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#104

Post by pc86 »

FabHK wrote: post #85
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an airline pilot, but I am a private pilot. Yes, I think it's normal to ask for more information while complying with instructions from ATC, [their] workload permitting. And you're required to comply with ATC instructions except in an emergency (doesn't necessarily have to be declared).

You’re required to follow ATC instruction, yes, but usually in order to avoid other traffic and sequencing, not anything more. I mean, as a driver you’re required to obey traffic lights, but they would not normally impose a destination on you.

In Belarus that may be the case (I seriously doubt it though), but it is not the case in the US. You are required to comply with all ATC instructions.

14 CFR 91.123(b) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.123

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#105

Post by weinzierl »

caturopath wrote: post #92
weinzierl wrote: post #69

This is the most interesting part for me: PILOT ASKS FOR FURTHER DETAILS Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? There he was on the right track to do what we always recommend to avoid being fished: Independently verify from the original source. Controller: This is our r…

> Unfortunately (but understandably) pilot obeys. Was this not the right decision? If not, can you clarify what the pilot should have done, even if it is understandable that they didn't do it?

I wrote this primarily because I think of the situation and the outcome as unfortunate. I'm not sure the pilot had a chance but rather I find it remarkable that he tried hard to do the right thing.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#106

Post by Calvin02 »

neves wrote: post #60

Don't forget that the country that started to divert planes to catch democrat dissidents was the United States. But Snowden wasn't in the plane. Details here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...

It is asinine to compare the two situations. Greenwald is wrongly equating the two together for his puppeteers.

1) Snowden had already been charged at that point and was running from the law. Morales's plane was diverted because it was believed to be providing passage to a criminal. While I don't know what Snowden did was right or wrong, it is clear that Snowden broke laws. His intentions might have been good but he broke some very serious laws.

2) Roman Protasevich, on the other hand, is a blogger. He hasn't released any state secrets that he swore an oath to protect.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#107

Post by yreg »

FabHK wrote: post #95
r721 wrote: post #29

>according to a transcript released on Tuesday by authorities in Belarus. >Following are excerpts from the transcript, which Reuters was unable to verify. I would wait for a Ryanair transcript.

That would be interesting. Not sure the airline has one, the CVR normally records only the last two hours IIRC.

Is there no save button when something substancial happens?

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#109

Post by bb611 »

Calvin02 wrote: post #106
neves wrote: post #60

Don't forget that the country that started to divert planes to catch democrat dissidents was the United States. But Snowden wasn't in the plane. Details here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...

It is asinine to compare the two situations. Greenwald is wrongly equating the two together for his puppeteers. 1) Snowden had already been charged at that point and was running from the law. Morales's plane was diverted because it was believed to be providing passage to a criminal. While I don't know what Snowden did was right or wrong, it is clear that Snowden broke laws. His intentions might have been good but he…

Even if you believe that there's little difference between Snowden and Protasevich, the scenarios are clearly different. Rescinding permission to transit is a far cry from falsely reporting a bomb threat, backing it up with military force, and then searching the plane and taking multiple passengers into custody as a condition of the plane's release.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#110

Post by relix »

complex1314 wrote: post #79
djxfade wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian airforces regularly violates NATO airspace in Norway. They never get any consequences for it, so why wouldn't they?

Would love some sources on that, because that would be a big issue. Russians regularly fly in international airspace along the Norwegian coast and are intercepted there by Norwegian fighters, but I have never heard about them actually violating Norwegian airspace. This is the closest I know of: https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2019/02/11-russia...

You can find tons of data on that on Google, maybe not Norway but EU airspace. It happens about once a day.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russian-aircraft-violate-eur...

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