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Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

reuters.com

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Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#61

Post by Judgmentality »

okamiueru wrote: post #57
jcrawfordor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIC is ultimately responsible for safety of flight, not controllers or authorities. Given the unusual message which is essentially asking the pilot to declare emergency and oddly specific instructions to divert I don't think this is unusual. Normally in an emergency the pilot would divert to either the filed alternate airport or to another at the pilot's discretion, they would not be told specifically where to go (th…

For people casually interested in this. What is PIC?

Pilot In Command. On a commercial flight there are at least two pilots, and possibly three.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#62

Post by herbstein »

okamiueru wrote: post #57
jcrawfordor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIC is ultimately responsible for safety of flight, not controllers or authorities. Given the unusual message which is essentially asking the pilot to declare emergency and oddly specific instructions to divert I don't think this is unusual. Normally in an emergency the pilot would divert to either the filed alternate airport or to another at the pilot's discretion, they would not be told specifically where to go (th…

For people casually interested in this. What is PIC?

It's "Pilot In Command"

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#63

Post by cperciva »

pc86 wrote: post #21
Sebb767 wrote: post #7

> Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? Is it usual for a pilot to ask for all this information? From a "casual reader" perspective, it looks like the pilot really did not want to divert, but this might just be my reading.

Not an airline pilot, but I am a private pilot. Yes, I think it's normal to ask for more information while complying with instructions from ATC, [their] workload permitting. And you're required to comply with ATC instructions except in an emergency (doesn't necessarily have to be declared).

Would "being told you have a bomb on board" qualify as an emergency in this sense?

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#64

Post by Judgmentality »

ddalex wrote: post #54
djxfade wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian airforces regularly violates NATO airspace in Norway. They never get any consequences for it, so why wouldn't they?

Because a MiG firing on a NATO-country airplane that's in NATO airspace is definitely sound reason of invoking NATO Art 5

There is an enormous leap between "violating airspace" and "shooting down a passenger plane while violating airspace"

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#65

Post by shakermakr »

drno123 wrote: post #43
nevermindiguess wrote: post #11

This is actually a good development. A number of countries purporting to hold the highest standards on human rights were actually the ones to use this tactic of diverting flights to apprehended those they deemed to be their enemies. I am referring to the United States and EU countries in the Snowden case and other cases before that. They lowered the bar first. Now Belarus joined to the new level. It’ll be interesting…

I don’t get why comments mentioning the forced landing of Morales’ plane in Austria, and searching for Snowden in the plane (under Obama) get downvoted. US/EU made a precedent and now everyone is surprised when Lukashenko simply copied their tactics.

It's now flagged. A comment saying that the forced landing of the President of Bolvia's plane in Austria, due to the US belief that Snowdon was on board, could be somehow relevant to the forced landing of a Ryanair flight in Belarus of someone the government believes is damaging them.

Free speech in action...

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#66

Post by neves »

phkahler wrote: post #56
drno123 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get why comments mentioning the forced landing of Morales’ plane in Austria, and searching for Snowden in the plane (under Obama) get downvoted. US/EU made a precedent and now everyone is surprised when Lukashenko simply copied their tactics.

>> the forced landing of Morales’ plane in Austria, and searching for Snowden in the plane I hadn't heard about that. Any good references? Edit: Found it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

A better one https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#67

Post by cmrdporcupine »

drno123 wrote: post #43
nevermindiguess wrote: post #11

This is actually a good development. A number of countries purporting to hold the highest standards on human rights were actually the ones to use this tactic of diverting flights to apprehended those they deemed to be their enemies. I am referring to the United States and EU countries in the Snowden case and other cases before that. They lowered the bar first. Now Belarus joined to the new level. It’ll be interesting…

I don’t get why comments mentioning the forced landing of Morales’ plane in Austria, and searching for Snowden in the plane (under Obama) get downvoted. US/EU made a precedent and now everyone is surprised when Lukashenko simply copied their tactics.

It's not analogous. The Morales incident was wrong, but not the same.

Firstly, Morales' plane wasn't a civilian airliner, it was his government's private jet. Secondly, no fake bomb threat was involved. Thirdly, nobody was arrested.

And it's now being employed as a "whatabout" distortion by those sympathetic to (or uncritical of) the Belarusian action. The two incidents differ drastically. Actions of a state against another state's leaders is one thing. Actions against civilian aircraft is another thing entirely.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#68

Post by capableweb »

ethbr0 wrote: post #49
yupper32 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the source is likely good enough to post. MSNBC reported on some CNN reporting the other week, while acknowledging that they haven't independently verified it yet. MSNBC was not saying that CNN isn't credible, it's just that they like to clarify that they haven't verified it themselves yet.

ATC traffic is still unencrypted right? I'd assume multiple parties have recordings.

Yes, still unencrypted but I don't think any ATCs upload their recordings themselves. It's volunteers that record and upload recordings to sites like liveatc.net. So it requires that someone was already recording the ATC at Minsk for this recording to be available. Not sure how big the aviation community is in Belarus but I took a quick look and couldn't find anything.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#69

Post by weinzierl »

This is the most interesting part for me:

PILOT ASKS FOR FURTHER DETAILS

Pilot: Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities?

There he was on the right track to do what we always recommend to avoid being fished: Independently verify from the original source.

Controller: This is our recommendations.

Minsk thwarts it by telling the truth and going into Milgram Experiment mode:

Pilot: Can you say again?

Controller: This is our recommendations.

Pilot: (unreadable.)

Pilot: Did you say that your recommendation?

PILOT AGREES TO LAND IN MINSK

Unfortunately (but understandably) pilot obeys.

Re: Transcript of controller telling plane to land in Minsk

#70

Post by ddalex »

drno123 wrote: post #43
nevermindiguess wrote: post #11

This is actually a good development. A number of countries purporting to hold the highest standards on human rights were actually the ones to use this tactic of diverting flights to apprehended those they deemed to be their enemies. I am referring to the United States and EU countries in the Snowden case and other cases before that. They lowered the bar first. Now Belarus joined to the new level. It’ll be interesting…

I don’t get why comments mentioning the forced landing of Morales’ plane in Austria, and searching for Snowden in the plane (under Obama) get downvoted. US/EU made a precedent and now everyone is surprised when Lukashenko simply copied their tactics.

There is a bit of a difference between using a legal framework to enforce a policy (the parties know what to expect) and arbitrarely chasing a commercial jet with a MiG (the parties don't know what to expect).

The tactics are not remotely the same.

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