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Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

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Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#201

Post by the8472 »

kerneis wrote: post #179
hutzlibu wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say something, how the kernel is different from linux for example? Why would I want to choose Fuchsia for a smartphone, for example. Where is the advantage?

The key concepts are documented here: https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts Some things that Fuchsia was able to do thanks to starting from scratch: - The system is based on capabilities, a security model which is based on explicit tracking of permissions. It wouldn't be possible to change Linux to be capability-based because the ambiant-authority model has been used pervasively since it was conceived 30 years ago…

> Fuchsia provides a stable binary interface (like Windows, but unlike Linux).

Linux does provide a stable binary interface, to userspace.

> eg. binary drivers from a hardware manufacturer that wouldn't provide updates for them anymore

That can be seen as much as a downside as an upside, because it makes life a lot easier for hardware manufacturers to ship more binary blobs

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#202

Post by LucidLynx »

kerneis wrote: post #179
hutzlibu wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say something, how the kernel is different from linux for example? Why would I want to choose Fuchsia for a smartphone, for example. Where is the advantage?

The key concepts are documented here: https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts Some things that Fuchsia was able to do thanks to starting from scratch: - The system is based on capabilities, a security model which is based on explicit tracking of permissions. It wouldn't be possible to change Linux to be capability-based because the ambiant-authority model has been used pervasively since it was conceived 30 years ago…

The micro-kernel architecture is definitely a game changer for this, compared to Linux...

Linux tried different things to reload dynamically the drivers & core stuff, without rebooting the computer, but I always had diverse issues after some hours...

Thanks for the link + info :)

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#203

Post by kerneis »

swiley wrote: post #188
ryukafalz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if I buy a device that runs Fuchsia (say, this Nest Hub), is enough of Fuchsia FOSS that I can run my own copy of it with e.g. a different UI and without Google services? This is true of Android devices by necessity as the kernel is GPL (bootloader locking aside); is it true of Fuchsia devices? As for bootloader locking, Google releases some Android devices with unlockable bootloaders. Can we expect the same of F…

It's not really true for Android either because the graphics drivers are mostly userspace and end up coupled with a lot of the vendor provided stuff. Fuchsia has no GPL so it's unlikely any of the driver source will be available to you.

> Fuchsia has no GPL so it's unlikely any of the driver source will be available to you.

The open-source repository already contains over 50 directories named `drivers`: https://cs.opensource.google/search?q=f:drivers%2F$&sq=&ss=f...

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#204

Post by pjmlp »

raxxorrax wrote: post #181
pjmlp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look outside of the desktop into embedded platforms. QNX, Switch OS, INTEGRITY OS, L4. To a certain extent, all Android OS services after Project Treble.

I work in the embedded area and it is true that these approaches are more successful here. But I think that is due to real pressure for memomy and speed or real time applications. That isn't really the case for general purpose devices like PCs. Those have an unlimited amount of memory and CPU power. I might try it for embedded devices some day.

The irony is that hypervisors and containers have basically taken away whatever benefits monolithic kernels might have.

OS X and Windows are much better in this regard than GNU/Linux/BSDs with their ongoing efforts to move all drivers to userspace, even though they will never be fully pure microkernels when done with it.

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#206

Post by zentiggr »

TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #187
nobleach wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I've never had issues with turning on and off lights via Alexa -> Smart Plugs, I have had my Echo Dot unable to play my wakeup alarm due to internet blips. Really? That particular function couldn't store some data in some sort of local storage? Like, I don't want the thing to be able to tell me Rick Springfield's biggest hits in order of Billboard chart performance while offline... I simply want my alarm sound…

You need an offline smart assistant: https://medevel.com/10-open-source-voice-assistants/

I think in this case it would be called an alarm clock.

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#207

Post by techrat »

hibbelig wrote: post #108
ryukafalz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if I buy a device that runs Fuchsia (say, this Nest Hub), is enough of Fuchsia FOSS that I can run my own copy of it with e.g. a different UI and without Google services? This is true of Android devices by necessity as the kernel is GPL (bootloader locking aside); is it true of Fuchsia devices? As for bootloader locking, Google releases some Android devices with unlockable bootloaders. Can we expect the same of F…

Are unlockable bootloaders bootloaders that cannot be locked, or bootloaders that can be unlocked? Not a native speaker. Hm. I think it is about bootloaders that can be unlocked.

"Unlockable" == "The option exists for the user to unlock the bootloader if they wish to do so."

Even as a native speaker, it can get awkward explaining 'unlockable bootloaders' because the impliction is that they're first locked if they can be later unlocked... when there are also locked bootloaders that CANNOT be unlocked.

It's better to just assume 'unlockable' means 'not restricted.'

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#208

Post by kerneis »

mwcampbell wrote: post #90

Does anyone know if Fuchsia, or any higher-level environment built on top of it like this new software for the Nest Hub, includes a screen reader for blind users? This will be necessary before Fuchsia can be considered a full replacement for Android, Chromium OS, etc.

Yes, Nest displays have a screen reader feature: https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9167457

As explained in the article, the release of Fuchsia should not change any supported feature (please report a bug via the "send feedback" option if you notice otherwise!).

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#209

Post by smklein »

surajrmal wrote: post #114
Grazester wrote: post #63

I came here for a technical discussion about Fuchsia and it's microkernel approach instead this is mostly fill with complains about Google as a company. Is there a social justice forum I can visit where I may be able to have a technical discussion about Fuchsia?

We have several mailing lists you can converse on. We're happy to answer any technical questions. https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/contribute/community/get-inv...

Congrats on the launch! I see iterating on Banjo is still on the roadmap - always more work to do :)

Re: Google is officially releasing Fuchsia OS, starting with a first-gen Nest Hub

#210

Post by techrat »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #38
raxxorrax wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are wrong that Gmail was revolutionary. It was a good service, but nothing special in my opinion. But yes, the license would allow Google to close the system down whenever they want. Still curious to know how Fuchsia would be a better choice for a system. Nest seems to be powered by Fuchsia...

Spam blocking was on another level, I've managed setups with e.g. Spamassassin (?) back then and Gmail was something else.

Reading email within a usable UI where you didn't have to download the spam first before it could be sorted was a pretty fucking big deal.

It's still my preferred method of dealing with email to this day. I never want to deal with POP/SMTP local client email ever again.

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