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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#211

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

klodolph wrote: post #103
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

First, not going to claim that macOS is "intuitive", because my in my experience, "intuitive" usually means very different things to different people. As a long-time Mac, Windows, and Linux user... I'll say that there are plenty of random broken things on the Mac, but there are also a few nice things that work very consistently on the Mac, but you'd never think to try them because you're used to them not working on L…

> You could save the file somewhere else, and drag the file (perhaps from the icon in the title bar) into the folder.

In RiscOS, drag-n-drop saving was the norm. You were not presented with a dialog, just an icon you could drag wherever you wanted the file to go. To me, this seems like a much more logical way to work with the desktop folder/file metaphor.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#212

Post by JKCalhoun »

FabHK wrote: post #136
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

> trying and failing to go up Cmd-click on the folder in the Finder window title, and go up as far as you want?

Correct. But that's one of those hidden features that someone has to tell you about. Not intuitive certainly.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#213

Post by sjg007 »

turkeywelder wrote: post #203

Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then. It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user - Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!) - Sleep…

How performant is chromeos? I'm thinking of getting one as it is basically linux.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#214

Post by lawkwok »

geraltofrivia wrote: post #204
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Amongst other gripes people have mentioned (and I agree with), here's another: cut. There does not seem to be a way to cut and paste a file/folder. The best I could figure out is to drag the icons, hold down the finger, and move the cursor to the desired folder on the sidebar (or another window) and release the finger. This is either extremely difficult to pull of, or I am less dexterous than I think I am. Why not ha…

Try Command + Option + V to paste and delete the source file (cut and paste).

I remember this command was I implemented a few years back and I think it was to reduce chances of unpasted files from disappearing or something.

In fact, opening any menu and pressing option reveals many secondary functions.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#215

Post by cytzol »

yalogin wrote: post #193

If anything for a first time user Macs are less intuitive. The whole window system is very different from everything out there. The app does not die when you close the window. One other thing the author forgot to mention is, in most cases one has to eject the DMG manually and then delete it if you want to clean up your downloads folder. Else you will just have this mounted until the next reboot. I know many people th…

> The whole window system is very different from everything out there. The app does not die when you close the window.

But that's one of my favourite things about it!

I remember one time when I had to use Windows after being away from its window-based paradigm (rather than an application-based paradigm) for several years. I had a single window open in Sublime Text, and I wanted to close that window then open a new one. So I closed that window, then instinctively reached for the menu bar to select 'Open Project'. Of course, the menu bar was no longer there, because it was part of the window I just closed. And then when I opened Sublime Text to get the menu bar back, it re-opened its last open document, which was the window I was trying to get rid of.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#216

Post by throwaddzuzxd »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #123
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

You have to customise MacOS to show full file paths and hidden files. Someone at Apple decided that users couldn't be trusted with that super-secret information, but anyone who reads HN is going to find that frustrating. I go back to Windows occasionally and I still hate every single thing about it. The tiles, the file system, the telemetry, the intrusive updates that guarantee I'll have to wait for an undefined time…

> the intrusive updates that guarantee I'll have to wait for an undefined time before I can get some work done

This is a common criticism but it's entirely false. Windows offers a lot more way to delay or refuse updates than macOS. When macOS wants to update, the best you can do is "Ask again tomorrow". And pray you see the popup before it reboots in 60 seconds.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#217

Post by klodolph »

bsanr2 wrote: post #197
klodolph wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, not going to claim that macOS is "intuitive", because my in my experience, "intuitive" usually means very different things to different people. As a long-time Mac, Windows, and Linux user... I'll say that there are plenty of random broken things on the Mac, but there are also a few nice things that work very consistently on the Mac, but you'd never think to try them because you're used to them not working on L…

>You could save the file somewhere else, and drag the file (perhaps from the icon in the title bar) into the folder. You can do this in Windows. Save the file, open the save dialog again, drag the file icon to the Explorer window with the folder you want open. Hold shift to toggle copy/move.

Don't you have to close the document first?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#218

Post by pmontra »

geraltofrivia wrote: post #186
amelius wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, and Linux seems to be by far the least stable. I have apps freezing the whole damn computer way more often there than the other two. How often is that? What hardware do you run it on? What distro do you use?

Not OP, but I run elementary OS 5.1.7 Hera, built on Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS, Linux 5.4.0-65-generic. Its more stable than it used to be, but the desktop manager still keeps hanging every fortnight or so. Changing the brightness, right after unlocking my laptop is a recipe for getting frustrated, and eventually having to hard restart the computer. Other micro issues pop up every now and then.

Basically every laptop is unsupported or best effort / best luck on Linux (except System 76 and the like.) My brightness control keys use to work or not according to the kernel and the NVIDIA driver versions. I configured two hotkeys to increase and decrease backlightining with X11 and forgot about the original ones. However I never got a crash because of them. Maybe the screen froze a couple of times since Ubuntu 20.04, probably a video card crash (lots of windows.)

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#219

Post by turkeywelder »

sjg007 wrote: post #213
turkeywelder wrote: post #203

Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then. It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user - Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!) - Sleep…

How performant is chromeos? I'm thinking of getting one as it is basically linux.

In our use it was perfectly fine, it'll run fine with 4gb of ram and a Celeron. I wouldn't want to do hardcore software dev on one because they're usually low end screens and CPUs, but as a "here's a safe machine you can't break" they're absolutely brilliant for family.

Boot time is instant, OS updates are instant, battery life is great, if there was ever "linux for the desktop" it's ChromeOS.

It's not all roses though: full disclosure: our Chromebook is stuck on Chrome 68 so these might not apply any more.

- The file management is poor, a zip file can and will confuse it

- Bluetooth is Windows XP levels of stable, if you get a device it likes you're good, but it can be finicky.

- The device has a fixed expiry date where they stop getting software updates, this is the big kicker for me, because we had a perfectly functional machine that was a bit old that just got turned into E waste because nobody wanted to support the software any more. Shame because it was a fantastic machine. I'm hoping our Mac lasts longer than the Chromebook it's replacing

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#220

Post by MattRix »

klodolph wrote: post #103
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

First, not going to claim that macOS is "intuitive", because my in my experience, "intuitive" usually means very different things to different people. As a long-time Mac, Windows, and Linux user... I'll say that there are plenty of random broken things on the Mac, but there are also a few nice things that work very consistently on the Mac, but you'd never think to try them because you're used to them not working on L…

In Windows I would copy the folder path from Explorer and paste it into the save dialog and press enter, which will cause the save dialog to go to that folder.
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